I for one think it's absolutely amazing that EMC even allows macros in the first place! I mean, I don't know of a single other major server that does. (Except maybe a few creative servers.) I can think back to almost every major multiplayer game I've ever played. I don't know of a single one with such a policy. It's great because early on the staff who founded EMC did something no-one else really seems to have done - in actually taking the time to think with common sense about what should be allowed and what should not be allowed. This is actually one of my favourite things about EMC! I think that use of fair macros should be encouraged. It teaches valuable life skills like coding, scripting, and even artificial intelligence. We live in a world of automation, and those who know how to automate things will do well. However, I have observed in recent weeks a huge drop in the price of emeralds, glowstone, XP bottles, sea lanterns, and other craftable or tradeable items, so I was well aware that something was occurring. The thing is that while you, as the crafter or trader, now have a lot of money, it comes at the expense of others. When you win at an economy, others lose. I have literally lost millions of rupees in the value drop of those items. And in the meantime, any other player who wants to produce those items without macros makes less money. So I'm glad that staff are stepping in and putting a stop to this. Not because I don't think you have every right to be greedy and find creative ways to maximize your own income, but because it needs to be fair to everyone. I have read over all the rules and I agree with the new clarification, with one exception. I think that the one-to-one setup rule is going to be very challenging to enforce and goes against the idea of allowing macros. I think that instead of mandating one click per action, it should be set to a reasonable speed limit just like with the auto-clicking rule. Have a maximum trades/second or crafts/second, based on the speed a non-macro player could use, which could even be the same number. With the present rule, one can easily press that single key as fast as they would like, to complete the action much faster than a non-macro player could, over and over. So it's not really fair when comparing a macro user to a non-macro user. In addition, you have no way to really know if the person did press that single key over and over or just slowed down and randomized the script, to appear like key presses. That makes it hard to enforce. Finally, I find that as it's worded now, it's hard to figure out and understand exactly what the limit is. (Input versus output, how many stacks, etc...) Simply stating how many trades or crafts can be completed within what interval is much simpler to my mind. Opened up a poll here!
With the trading macros, for example, is it permissible to trade with a villager, until that villager locks the trade? Usually, that's like 4-7 trades, but still the same gui session.
Would I be allowed to use a script that holds down the left arrow key and attack button at the same time as long as I am not afk? I do not see why this would be illegal considering it is the same as putting a weight on the left arrow key and attack button.
I fail to see how this "restriction" brings macros down to reasonable human capabilities. Even if they can't be faster than a human (and it sounds like they totally still can), they're still much more effortless. This is a textbook "unfair advantage", as far as I can tell. Oh, and please don't tell me that "I can download them too, making it fair", because that defence would be no more valid for any other illegal mods. How long does it take to craft, say, a stack of redstone blocks? Well, you'd need 19 clicks and a lot of cursor-aiming. It sounds like, with macros, you can just press one key while aiming at a crafting table and it just does it automatically. Here I've been crafting every single block/item the Vanilla way for years, and other players have just been sitting back and letting a script do most of their work for them? Farming, grinding, fishing, villager trading, crafting, and I don't even know what else - all the output from that, by which I used to always be really impressed, feels so cheapened when you realize it was all done by a mod instead of passionate players. I don't even know who got what legitimately or through the mod, so I don't know what to be impressed by. "Wow, that's incredible! How'd you get all that?" shouldn't be answered with, "Oh, I held 'F' and had a sandwich." Okay, I thought the macro mod was cool for binding commands to keys/buttons, so you didn't have to type out commands as tediously, but when it starts automating actual in-game actions is when it becomes unfair, to me. I'd like to hear how players could possibly defend this as a legitimate tool, given the whole meaning of Vanilla Survival Minecraft, without saying "it's always been allowed" or misquoting "play your way", or any of that nonsense. The fact that it's allowed to the extent it is, seems too lenient to me, and it frustrates me that players would actually say it's too strict.
I do it in 10 (no need for macros when only crafting a stack or 2, so this limitation kind of makes macros pointless to me now lol). Mojang themselves added in many updates ago the "press number key to click into craft table thing" so yout put 9 stacks of dust in hot bar, open crafting table, and press 1-9 in respective slots. Not much cursor aiming imo. Then shift click stack into inv and repeat process. Now if we are counting the click it takes to open the crafting table as well it makes it 11. However, I do see your point. ~~~~ I get the fact that many are stating that they have seen a drop in rupees for emeralds lately (I have too! I believe that is due to the auto-trading funtion people are using- personally I did everything but the melon crafting manually.). And continuing to debate this issue further will not matter as it has been finalized. I am just glad they made a policy reminding us about these limitations because I had been told before that it was allowed- so instead of them going ape on players we get a nice little warning, put on a big smile; and deal with it. Plus there are redstone machines out there that are great for getting the right amount into your inventory to craft fast and efficiently... Gonna just leave it at that, and go back to playing COD.
It sounds to me like the staff team has had problems with a few players using the macro mod in conjunction with illegal activity. If that is the case, why put in an artificial ceiling to this mod on a basis that has never been stated in the past (the idea that this mod was only allowed to limit the wear and tear on equipment but not exceed normal play limits). If this was stated, I would like to be linked to where it was or see a dated log of where it used to say that on the site. The idea of one-to-one is flawed in the idea that you only click something once to achieve a result. I don't use macro mods currently, as I have no use for them, but in the past I had many lists of scripts. Often times I would initiate an inventory full of crafting using several clicks/presses, not just one. If it takes me 4 clicks to determine that I want my sugarcane converted into paper, then am I allowed to craft 4 stacks? The one-to-one rule says I am, but your intentions say I am not. Also the macro limitations you have listed will only affect those who have already not been breaking the AFK rules. Sure, I can make a macro that only crafts things one crafting grid at a time, but I can also make a macro that, in one click, initiates that crafting macro enough times to use up an entire inventory. Your system will never know the difference and the people who will use that to get around the rules are the ones who are already trying to get around the rules. This "clarification" sums up nearly everything wrong with our current society; let's attempt to solve one problem by not actually focusing on the problem but instead point the blame on a minor aspect/item used in the problem. If this is the problem you have, then this is the problem you should be aiming to fix. But don't punish the rest of us who have been using the mod reasonably because a few people abuse it. Anyway, all of that said... According to these rules, a queue system is allowed, and I suggest that anyone who auto-crafts implement one. Start off by creating crafting scripts that craft one crafting grid of an item at a time, and then create a new script that interacts with them. This overarching script will have you pick an item to craft, and then you must press whatever key you choose X times for X crafting grids of an item. Thus you are within the rules, and you actually press more buttons/clicks than one-to-one. ie, I want to make 36 stacks of sugar. I press 'P' to open the queue script, then choose sugar. I then press 'O' 36 times to fulfill the one-to-one requirement. You would then press a confirmation key to begin crafting.
You just solved my problem will just modify the macro to force me to press another key 3 times before it starts the crafting macro.
I think it's important to understand the distinction between automating actions for convenience and automating actions to gain an unfair advantage over non-mod players. Macros will always be more convenient, but they should never serve to do anything that can't legitimately be done by a non-macro player. If players want to craft manually, that's their prerogative. If they want to save keystrokes, wear and tear on keyboards, hand strain, whatever, that's also up to them. But the moment that these scripts exceed the abilities of a normal player, it is no longer fair, and goes against the rules. For sure, anyone can learn to use a macro, same as they could use x-rays or kill aura. The important distinction here is that macro and non-macro players have a level playing field in terms of what they can do (assuming the rules are followed), while x-ray or kill aura and non-x-ray or non-kill-aura players certainly do not!
I don't use Macros in any game I play, why I don't even use mods what so ever in Minecraft or any game for that matter! Why you may ask? Well that's how I roll, nice and good old vanilla gameplay. But it is nice they are cracking down on these, even if I don't use them.
Seems fine to me. Glad for the clarification. Also, @Krysyy, if I have a keyboard that sends multiple strokes with a single key press, is that illegal? Like if I press a special button and it's sends O+P? For those looking for legal-weasel ways to circumvent the spirit of the rules -- it never ends well. If players are causing distress to others, EMC is going to deal with it. If EMC can't get the wording right, they could simply remove the macro mod from the approved mods list! They could even replace the currently approved macro mod with a mod that's more in line with the spirit of the rule. The point is that exploiting the language of the rule in order to circumvent it is a bad idea.
The ones that complain the loudest are often not the majority But I'm not saying that to disagree...personally I have not been distressed. I was making a general statement based on there having been player complaints associated with the rule. I encourage anyone affected by the clarification to speak their mind. But instead of looking for loopholes in the wording I'd try to work with staff to find a compromise. To give an example (not to pick at jkjkjk182 here)... /quote="jkjkjk182, post: 1207065"you must press whatever key you choose X times for X crafting grids of an item./quoteI think the idea is that you generate a "bank" of keystrokes for future crafting? As in, I mash my keyboard to generate a thousand pressed, then let my macro run for an hour? Maybe staff would allow it...but more likely it will push them towards revoking approval on the macro mod.
Sarcasm usually. ---- Also to others, let's not assume that everyone who uses macros does so to gain an unfair advantage. I don't see what advantage I gain from crafting 64 blocks of redstone from 1 button press compared to manually doing it. It's a slight time saver. It doesn't make the items produce quicker, or get you better drops. It takes a row of dust and blocks it. No harm in that.
My suggestion still needs to work within the AFK rules that have always existed. Crafting an inventory of items should never break the AFK as the automation has a short start and end, and requires the player present to refill the inventory. The problem the staff appear to have is people making scripts that run far longer than allowed by the AFK rules, which is where these players run into trouble. But instead of saying "hey, just a reminder than using mods that violate the AFK rules is illegal" they went "hey, all of you who follow the rules, we are making your life more difficult! Here are rules that don't actually apply to the problem at hand and only hinder those who use the mods legally!" By reading only Krysyy's posts, those who have never used macros would be well convinced that a majority of macro usage is cheating and thoroughly adding an unfair advantage. That is slander to the 99% of macro users who use the mod legally and a very inappropriate position to take since she is well aware that most people use this mod legally. It should also be noted that the autocrafting feature gained widespread love on EMC after our very own JackBiggin featured it several times. The idea that crafting more than one crafting grid with the press of one key is illegal is very recently new, and attaching the word "clarification" only adds distrust and resentment among us who have been around long enough to know the real origins of things that happen around here.
The convenience is an advantage. Automating fundamental actions that cannot be automated in Vanilla (with redstone contraptions or simply placing a weight on a key or whatever) is something you are not supposed to be able to do in Minecraft. It is advantageous to be able to do something with fewer keystrokes, only achievable by a mod. Maybe it only saves a "little" time or a "little" effort, but that adds up. This is how players are able to make 40 DC's of whatever for auction - in Vanilla that's an insane task, but it's supposed to be. I think I see what you're saying about the level playing field. Since it just performs Vanilla actions, it's not like you're flying in the air or something that cannot physically be achieved otherwise. But they do them in a way a player could not. Proof that macros are better than players: players use macros. If the mod didn't give an advantage, no one would have a use for it. It's that kind of mod. Placing a weight on a key or mouse button is a dumb way to "play" a game; it's really not in the spirit of the game, and especially of the server. Macros would already be pretty bad if they only equalled that, but they're worse than that. They allow a player to do things with fewer keystrokes than what's possible in the game. And I'm talking about within EMC's rules. ---------- I know, it's allowed in the rules (apparently), but I don't care; I'm questioning the rules. It was said earlier that most servers don't allow macros at all. Well, I kinda agree with most servers on that one.
I feel like the only player who is playing without any texture pack, modifications, alteration, insertion, extra screen, pop up map, bells, whistles..... oh wait a minute, someone talked me into getting a new skin not too long ago. So I have only changed my skin once to the one I have now. I dont begrudge anyones choice to trick out their game play to the extent the rules allow. But you cant say you are just the same as someone with no mods. After i spend hours gathering a resource and haul it home, I now have the task of grabbing it and placing it in the bench to make blocks. Time consuming. I have chests of raw product stacking up that should be processed (8 chest of stone to slab) that I just dont feel like standing there to do. If I could turn my backlog of sugar cane into sugar then I could take the mountain of pumpkins and 20ish chests of egs to make pumpkin pies. If I used a mod I bet it would not take that long working in these large numbers. But as a human, I try not to look at the chests and just build another level to store more. I am not knocking anyone for using an approved mod. I play the way I do because I want to. No add ons because I want it that way. All I am saying is if you want to use a mod then you are not doing it yourself, its like a shortcut and you cant say its just the same as playing without a mod. Have fun and dont worry. If its legal and you want to do it, have at it and enjoy yourself. If in doubt ask for clarification and then back to the game.
