Macros/Keybinds/Autoclickers Survey Community Discussion

I understand, but AFK means "Away from Keyboard" so the term for not being active on the client but being active on another client while having minecraft open should be called "Away"

Yet “Away” also refers to the ingame system, which it is not automatically applied to people that head-farm or auto-strike mobs. So it is much less inclusive to cases which should be covered, imo

You totally - totally - totally misunderstood me I didn't sugegst TNT duping to be allowed - neither did I for dragon eggs and shulker shells.
Technical minecraft is an alredey esteblished term for people who put redstone and slimestone to the fullest to produce anything as fast as possible. The most commonly used defenetion, I think, is "The minecraft of people who have at least one record of most efficient farm or technically usefull device in any catagory" Seeing I do have one tied world record (mellon and pupkin farm, most drops per space - tied with Illmango) And, if everything comes out well, a full record in a small group. (I, so far, didn't find anything better as what I did, but I'm not sure jet, and I still see some space for improvement) I defenetly am a technical minecrafter. (the defenition is kinda janky how I worded it - I know)

When I ment was: we like farms - any sort and any way possible. The quarry I showed is, I think, one of the most impressive achivements jet (so many people worked on it for so long), which is why I showed it, but there is way more. The key thing is: we love farming/producing stuff. With the way EMC works, most catagories are way less efficient (mainly due to you not being able to move ghasts to the overworld) or just plainly impossible. This macro regulation shuts down another one of thease doors - quite a big one. key-down farms is something quite oftenly used. I think more than half of the farms I seriously was impressed by when I first saw it were of this type, most of them are possible on EMC with everything else.

This is what I meant with what I said. I know EMC is not the place to dupe stuff or such - but it should be a place for people who love making farms. The residence system seems almost like it's designed for people who love farming stuff, but quite a lot of the fun farms are basically disabled in EMC. Quite a lot of them due to this regulation.

(sorry for using the word "farm" too often: I see it's a bit of annoying repeation)

I'm with you, but to me both "AFK" and "away" could mean not in chair. Of course in this context everyone knows what is really meant, but I'm speaking from the view of someone nefarious trying to find a loophole in the written law.

I think what we want here is something to describe "not paying attention".

Things like: inattentive, distracted, inobservant, unresponsive, unwatchful, unnoticing, unobserving, unconcious...
...to pull a few from google search.

AFK is literally defined by its name... Away from keyboard. So if you arent paying attention and looking at a youtube video, you're not so much AFK, but just distracted or busy doing something else... you are literally still at your keyboard. That is my opinion on the term of "afk".

I believe it should be considered just "away".

Sorry, I've always tried to be kind, but since you sometimes have a tendency to not answer all my questions, and answered others after mine, I lost my kindness a bit for once. Thanks for answering while at work, though. A small piece of advice that you can do anything with you want: maybe, in such a case quote the post with questions you can't answer yet, and let them know you'll answer later, so people don't think you've skipped their question.

Thanks for discussing it in modchat (maybe mention that (earlier), so we regular players can be more appreciative of the work the staff team does? ).

Cool, thanks! I believe that's the only thing I like 10 CPS for, for the rest 5 would be fine with me. (or maybe allow 10 CPS in max. 5 minutes intervals or something, dunno, maybe something to discuss. )

If someone were to (preferably private (or by mentioning my name in chat)) message me, I think it'd be reasonable to reply within 3 minutes. If after 3 minutes no reply is given, send them another message and give them another 30 seconds. No reply? Then the chance is near 100% that they are AFK (either definition fits ), and a kick is fair.

Any other questions for me?

the real question is where the controversial tap

It's not a controversial topic, it's a community discussion thread. Lol.

oh, just wait

Let's not invite controversy, and try to stay on-topic

(1) and (2) That is useful information, thanks!

For public reference, the current EMC policy on the one-click, one-action (OCOA) rule provides the following example for villager trading.

• "If you trade with a villager with a macrokey, then you need to click your key the required amount of times. If you trade 25 times with 25 clicks, that is ok. If you trade 25 times with 1 click, that is NOT okay."

My thoughts are as follows, but I am far more interested in community opinion on this, as I have seen little debate on it.

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The EMC policy on macros as I understand it is that macros are allowed for the sole purpose of reducing the risk of injury that comes from repetitive actions, mostly the pressing of keys. In doing so, they may not grant their user any ability that could not be emulated by an average human being and a computer mouse.

The OCOA rule follows the spirit of these rules, but violates them on a technical level. I would argue that this is because the EMC policy does not distinguish between the mechanism of a macro and the end result of a macro, and that this violation is not immediate grounds for modification of the rule. The EMC community must understand and debate both components of this before we can fairly debate if the OCOA rule needs to be changed. More on this below.

The OCOA is sufficient for restricting the behavior of villager trading as-is, provided my understanding of EMC policy is correct. It currently does not need to be changed, but is not a good universal rule for all mods or macros performing similar OCOA style services.

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When examining any mod/macro/client/whatever (for simplicity, I will call all of these things mods), there are two primary components that we must form a stance on.

• How should the mod be allowed to achieve an end result, and should we allow a mod that operates in this way?
• What is the end result of an operation of this mod, and should we allow a mod to produce this end result?

For some things, the one of these components doesn't matter when we debate if it should be allowed. Flying and duping mods are not allowed because of their end result, it doesn't matter how they do it. Conversely, using a block placing mod (restricted in EMC!) to make a house would have the same effect as hacking a server to world-edit it in using console commands, but clearly one of these would be against the rules!

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Let us debate the OCOA rule with these components in mind.

• OCOA allows the process of completing a single trade to be done with one click. This requires that a computer search for and then move items around instantly within the trade window, and often search through multiple HUD interfaces. It provides additional HUD improvements, but nothing them is superhuman or provides a service beyond operating the mod. These things are no different for villager trading than any auto-sorting, inventory management, searching, crafting, or tool cycling mod, but they are completed in a way that is superhuman in nature.

• OCOA allows bulk trading to be completed in a series of clicks, rather than dragging items to a trade slot and tabbing to different trades. The way it does this does not make trading significantly faster than the vanilla method, particularly since it does not allow for bulk trading, but it does modify the trading process significantly. In a purely input-output scenario, mod users and non-mod users will come out about equal.

• Are both of these components important? Do either the ends or the means of mods allowed by OCOA automatically exclude them from being allowable in EMC? If so, why, and how should we modify OCOA to make the ends and means of mods allowed by it acceptable? Should we remove OCOA entirely?

As a somewhat related aside, here are some useful numbers for people to use when debating about stuff. Most of the crafting stuff * is being sidelined, but y'all clicking types might be interested in broadening your data set.

*(which I think is probably harmless anyway, melon crafting seems to be the only thing being brought up, and the price of melon blocks is literally the cost of transport)

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Clicks per second, averaged.
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1 Second : 8.2 c/s (very variable)
10 Seconds : 6.6 c/s
60 Seconds : 5.6 c/s
300 Seconds : 5.2 c/s (only did it once, but can you blame me)

If nothing else, the close proximity of my results to EMC's new recommendation suggests they either tested it (oh golly I really hope they did) or got extremely lucky.

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I could have tested others, but I chose dispensers and melon blocks, because they were two items I specifically mentioned earlier.

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Dispensers produced using ideal vanilla setup versus EMC approved crafting mod.
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Vanilla method (I don't use a crafting book for these usually):
10 Seconds : 9.2 crafted
~69.5 seconds/stack

EMC approved crafting mod:
10 seconds : 67.0 crafted (The crafting mod replaces cobblestone and redstone as well, allowing uninterrupted crafting)
~9.55 seconds/stack

Increase of production per unit time using the crafting mod: ~731%

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Melon blocks produced using ideal vanilla setup versus EMC approved crafting mod.
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Vanilla method, using crafting book:
10 Seconds : 12.7 crafted
76.2 stacks/minute gross

Adjusted for emptying my inventory: (~6.9s)
57.6 stacks/minute

EMC approved crafting mod:
10 Seconds : Inventory filled too fast, logic dictates ~66 stacks from click speed results
~396 stacks/minute gross

Adjusted for emptying my inventory: (~6.9s)
147 stacks or ~24.5 DC's of melon slices/minute

Increase of production per unit time using the crafting mod: 255%

3 minutes is fine for a mention (should be more than enough, as you can set a sound to them). But I heard that you're using different methods now, as people are using macros to respond to mentions. But that should be illegal, right? A couple of messages in chat are easily missed.

A late reaction, I completely missed the poll, but this is important stuff.

I foresee a completely different problem arising with all this "rule nitpicking" as I like to call it. Which is setting up such a complex and diverse set of rules that not even the staff themselves will be able to follow up on them in good way. And that can only lead to friction.

In my personal opinion I think the whole thing might just as well be outlawed. I never hid my dislike for macro's and such and so I'll share again. This opinion is even more fueled through the awesome (vanilla!) recipe book. Crafting a stack of sea lanterns for example used to be a tremendous chore. Thanks to the recipe book you can do so within a few minutes. Do we really need even more convenience?

So my suggestion / opinion is basically to either allow FULL macro usage (keyboard) without limits or none at all. Not this "you can use keyboard macro's but only 1 click every 3.25 seconds and do keep lag in mind or else it's illegal. Also if you drop an item and fail to pick it up that's also not cool" (sorry for the exaggeration).

See, I don't like macro's but I also fail to understand the harm of them. Usually macro's are used by devoted players and those devoted players are more than often also valuable assets to the Empire. Sure: by "cheating" with macro's they may get richer.

So how would that negatively affect my gameplay as a regular no-macro and no-mod using player?

They got more money so they can more easily win auctions? Sure. But that happens more often anyway, and with all due respect but even though I really enjoy auctions I also think it's fair to say that you usually get MUCH better deals if you actually play the game.

I think that this is an aspect staff are sometimes overlooking: playing on the Empire isn't a competition perse. The best you can do to compete is with rupees yet that asset is carefully hidden in the leaderboards which by themselves are also somewhat hidden.

Seriously.. I think rules should be there to protect the community and the gameplay. Obviously xray and all that crap should be outlawed because that WILL negatively affect other players. If a player "just" grabs a kazillion ores and outsells a shop and continues to do so then that is obviously not good(tm).

But once again: I fail to see the negative affect which macros have. No, I don't like them myself. I even dislike crafting mods. Yet even so: it does not directly and negatively affect other players.

Who cares if "player x" turned 8 DC's of bricks into brick blocks within a minute using macros? I don't. I also don't see how that is a problem as long as he obtained them by playing an honest game (= mining / smelting or buying those somewhere).

As long as this stuff doesn't affect the server in a negative way (think about lag) then I really fail to understand the need for all that extra regulation. Like I said: add too many rules and even the staff themselves won't be able to follow up, something I've noticed myself a few times already in not directly related examples.

I'm not going through the whole thread but I got a little upset over this bit so here we go:

oh puhlease.

This is exactly the nitpicking which I think we can do without, no offense Tom. AFK, the acronym, does indeed stand for away from keyboard. But who said that this keyboard had to be physical? No one!

The meaning of AFK though is simple: you're away. From the keyboard which also happens to be the main input device of the game. I mean.. how are you going to move around without WASD? Or chat for that matter.

Instead of nitpicking why not try to pick up on the broader intent? You might learn something new

Sorry, but I'm a huge advocate of the afk rule, I think it's one which fully makes sense and helps to balance the gameplay in a fair way.

(edit)

Apologies because I wasn't aware that the discussion about AFK should be discontinued, even so, that is still my fault. As such: Tom already responded and we'll leave it at that. We both had our say, all good.

So before you want to hit reply: please don't!

These are 2 extremes that are just not necessary. This thread, and the poll, are here to remove the confusion and fine tune the rules. There has only been a few marco uses that have been causing most of the issues. With the communities help along with the staff we can come to a middle ground that makes it easy for anyone to follow.

I'm sorry Shell, I liked your previous post, but I have to disagree here (and that's not because you quoted me).

"Who said that the keyboard had to be physical? No one!"
To which I would reply, "who said that the keyboard doesn't have to be physical? No one!".

AFK means away from keyboard, and if something else than that is being tried to be conveyed, a different term should be used. How can I know which "alternative fact" definition to use in this case? I still don't exactly understand what is meant in that rule, I just can't. It's not that I don't want to, but I just can't.

AFK is a abbreviation for "away from keyboard", so it means "away from keyboard", not something else. Want to say something else? Sure, but use a different word, else not everyone will understand.

Anyways, this discussion wasn't supposed to be continued here, but since you're new to this thread and maybe haven't read all, I figured I'd reply anyways. (wow, I started and ended a paragraph with anyways. )

I'm not entirely sure I understand why this is a difficult concept to understand...

Usually when I say AFK, I do not literally mean that I am going "away from my keyboard." Maybe I need to look up something and I don't want to potentially miss pings. Maybe I need to reply to something on the forums and I know it'll take more than a minute or two. Maybe I just need to answer the phone and since I can't handle a voice conversation and text conversation at once, I log out or if I'm on an alt, say or do /afk. It's not that I'm actually away from the keyboard. I'm either not present (actually away from keyboard), or not paying attention (Minecraft is minimized/I'm doing something irl that prevents me from paying attention).

AFK interaction means that you are NOT present, or you are not looking at your screen, or you are otherwise just not paying attention. The definition does not have to be mutually exclusive... Language is always evolving and changing. It can mean away from keyboard literally, but it doesn't have to. To try and clamp down and say "only use it when you're really going away!" opens up needlessly wordiness.

If you want AFK to only be used when someone is really going away from keyboard, then perhaps all exaggerations or slight inaccuracies should be done away with. No more exaggeration jokes, no more of the use of that dreadful word thingy. I really hope nobody ever mixes up the words wastelands/wild, on EMC anyway even though wild is an accurate term for both the wastelands and frontier and only wastelands/frontier are exclusive terms for one or the other. I really see no point in being so nitpicky with language. As long as you get the general idea and it isn't deathly important (we aren't performing rocket science here) there is no need to be so detailed. Saying AFK is a lot easier than going "I need a drink and to get food and change my baby's diaper, I'll be back." Just as easily understood if they were to go "afk for a while."

NOTE - I only am talking about in a casual discussion. Obviously if you're doing math or when we're talking about rules, etc, language needs to be a bit more precise. (Which is why the term 'Away' has come up to replace 'AFK,' see JD's posts earlier.)

Another example of language not always being perfectly accurate... Not everyone uses "lol" when they're actually laughing out loud (who actually lols at anything they see on the Internet? I do every now and then but usually it's just a very disturbing, soundless chuckle). As a language enthusiast I once watched said, lol does not actually mean "laugh out loud" in most text conversations. It is a sympathetic phrase, something we say when we aren't sure what to say but don't want to come off as cold or unfriendly. But can you still use it to just mean laugh out loud? Sure you can! Nobody said you couldn't.

Another example of phrases or acronyms morphing to words is "wb." Wb obviously means welcome back but I've seen players say "wabee" before, and that was always how I pronounced it in my head, too. It still means what it literally means, but has morphed to its own word. But then again I dont know if wb/wabee is used elsewhere because I never leave EMC/ARK

I really hope I do not come off as rude. That wasn't my intention. I am just a slight language nerd and since we are discussing the semantics of AFK and macro usage, I feel this applies to this discussion.