Macros/Keybinds/Autoclickers Survey Community Discussion

I have gone cross eyed trying to read all the post I am against auto clickers, macros of any kind as its not part of minecraft, AFK farms I am not against as the core code of minecraft (I am not talking about EMC) I am talking about Minecraft has been coded to allow afk and auto farms, I base this on mobs drop loot from none player damage! it would have been just as easy for the Minecraft devs to make all mobs like blazes I.E. not drop any loot if killed by non player damage.

That is my 2 sense. please don't hate me I am not trying to ruin anyone's day, its just my opinion.

No one is going to hate you. That is the issue with today's society; not being able to accept other people's opinions, and realizing that they are entitled to their own opinions! That's what is great about EMC these days.... You can speak your opinions, without being ostracized in the community!

So for clarification you believe auto clickers as well as macros should be outright banned, with not even them being allowed with the current or more strict rules?

To be perfectly honest, I don't understand them well enough to make any good suggestions. I like the 3 minute rule, but that's all I've got at the moment.

Personally, if you think it's unfair that other players are stocking their shops faster than you because of macros, just go with the "if you can't beat em, join em," it's survival of the fittest

*cough* yeah ...

Okay, so after crafting 3 DCs of paper, I can see the appeals of macros, and I'm willing to be more receptive to them. But I would still like to see players be successful without them.

Just real quick want to give some input on this idea of "survival of the fittest." While that may be true in some sense, that is not the mentality EMC was built on.

If you ask most of the people who are still here after 2, 3, or even 6 years (woot 7 year EMC bday coming up!) they will say they are still here not for Minecraft, nor the economy, but because of the community. When you look at the forums and you see people post "I don't know why I'm still here when I don't really play Minecraft anymore, but here I am," you realize that the community is what keeps those people here.

These past 7 years has created a community of players that loves to invite new people into it, and has sadly watched a lot of players leave. Many would say that their best friends have been made through EMC, and some would even call EMC family. "Survival of the fittest" was not what brought us here: it was creating an environment where anybody, no matter their background or gameplay ability, was able to play and enjoy our great server.

I'm not saying this to call you or anyone else out. This is just a reminder of what EMC stands for, and what it is we try to accomplish here. I love this server and this community, as I know everyone else here does too.

I was talking about the economy, not the community...

This entire thread is mainly economy based.... It's the community that ultimately votes/ voices their opinions

That's a saying? It's "the customer's king" here. That seems less likely to be abused that way.

I'm unsure on this one. One of the reasons for macros is not exhausting your hands so much by clicking. If the maximum CPS would be halved, it would still be significantly better to click manually. But perhaps one should simply be so sensible to take the extra time for granted, if they stay healthier through it...
Actually, when I read this before, I only did a cps test for some seconds. I guess I should see how many cps I'd do in half a minute, and compare that to a macro.
Alright, during 30 seconds, I had 8 clicks per second. It started at 9 but dropped down as I missed some clicks every few seconds.
I am still not sure what to do with this, though.

Thanks for this post! As a player who's been around most of the time since November 2011, I definitely agree! But this post is also great to help explain why I use some macros:

As I said, I've been here since 2011, and in that time have accumulated more than enough promos so that if I sold them all I could buy basically any regular item I'd want in any huge amount. Sure, that is a way of how I could play the game, but that's not how I like to do it.

Using macros opens up some new things for me, of which the short simple tasks are allowed anyways (like clicking a shortcut to go to my main residence), and the slightly more complex ones, that can be done within vanilla minecraft too, but make it a snall bit easier to manage (like holding a button for an extended period of time), that are up for discussion now and in the future.

Because I can use these macros to make my life a little bit easier, I can do other fun things on EMC, like building and managing my residence, but there's also something else. Some farms require a button to be held for a while, and I like to try to make these farms as efficient as possible under my limitations. This is a great redstone and game mechanics challenge, but that's not all.

When the farm is ready, usually we'd want to design a build around it. And when that build is done, we'll spend hours upon hours on EMC to make this build a reality (which takes longer than just designing it, as in designing you can use worldedit: //set, //rotate, etc), which is great fun, and gives me a reason to be on EMC apart from just jumping around!

Basically, being allowed to use a simple form of macros allows me and others to find new areas to explore on EMC, and to find new ways of having fun on EMC.

I really, really, really don't see how it can be cheating. Currently: If I would follow the rules like a lawyer, putting a book on your key to go afk would be allowed, due to the "no afk-interaction" part only being there noted about macro's, but doesn't say anything about afk interaction without having mods installed, and so, by the rules, is allowed. I would say it is only fair to not disable to people with macro's, as the current rule says that once you install any mod, you may no longer afk interact with the world, with is rather srange in my oppionion.
I know that this is not what you mean to say, but to my (very) autist brain, it's EXACTLY what you say. "You're alowed to afk-interact, as long as you don't have any mods installed"
If you want to set up rules - do it properly. Becuase if I would act upon the rules as it currently stands, I would still gat banned/kicked, even though I'd not be doing anything wrong, and be properly following the rules.

Side note: got 7cps over 60 seconds

Okay... now about what you actually mean to say - which I only know is there due to me reading the rest of this discussion. (honestly)

There is one main problem I have with this... I have seen many people who say that this "play your way" does not count here... Well... I have something against that...

You see: there also is a such thing as technical minbecraft: the minecraft of people making really fast and efficient farms, automatic quarries of flying machines, use 0-tick mechanics to make everything operate as fast and efficient as possible and mainly, people who play minecraft with the spirit "A material not automatically farmed is a material not used to the fullest" This is the comunety I am active at next to EMC.
Here, we try to passivly farm every item you could possebly passivly farm, using every corner of the game and usually reading the came code to find how to do something most efficiently.
This is an example of the things you can do in minecraft like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htRyAMe4yAI&t=54s
(Which, btw, is based on this thing, which has a feature I came up with: (the back and forth flying machines to create delay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYIhK2d8ELY )

This honest, unmodded way of playing minecraft basically is not possible on EMC. That's the part where "play your way" doesn't seem to be there. A lot of things we love to do got restricted, for understandble and not understandeble reasons. Most stuff I get: chuck loading: someone who doesn't know what they're doing can crash the server; Item duping: could also be used for items where that is not needed and destroy the economy (I use it for dragon eggs and shulker shells - items that are needed in bulk but cannot be produced in bulk), but "book on your key" afk-farms? I really don't see a true harm in it. It might shift the economy a little bit, yes, but most items farmed like this aren't a huge part of the marcet anyway, and actually are nice to have buttloads of. (I think noone thinks it's a bad thing Tom and I sell a lot of cobblestone cheap in bulk: having a disposeble block is always great. That thing is so fast we don't need to afk at it... but some other farms like this would)

If you don't want techincal minecrafters: that is a way to deal with it too: but then change your slogan:

"Play your way, unless you're a technical minecrafter, then just shut up and go (...) yourslef"

If that's says that you can't auto click while afk then it should be allowed that's my thought of a person who doesn't use macros or that

5 clicks per second seems a bit low as i can click anywhere between 7-8 cps and if i really try i can get up to 15 clicks per second or (cps)

Jelle casually duping dragon eggs.
Just kidding, of course, but I laughed out loud when I read that.

Yeah... I mean: quite a lot of contraptions use them beleve it or not It's kind of sad you can't use them on EMC

quick note: good gracious this post got away from me. I meant it to just be a quick reply but then I found that I had quite a lot to say about a lot of things. Meaningless apologies in advance for the essay herein::

I don't think macros necessarily need to be outlawed, but I fully agree they need to be regulated more clearly and perhaps more strictly.

I use macros for little Quality of Life improvements. Things like making sure I remember to turn map off and bmode on when I'm in the frontier, auto-accepting group invites from my alts, a super handy keybind that makes chat-channel-switching much quicker and easier, seeing what staff are online when I log in, etc. There are a few situations that wouldn't be possible without macros (mainly Mob Arena and timed text entry and simultaneous res-flag changes for hosting other events). Personally, I believe this is the extent to which Macros should be utilized.

I have always been a bit of a minimalist when it comes to Minecraft (including macros and mods in general). I choose not to use Macros beyond this, not because I don't understand how to build them (though I admit they are very tricky for the uninitiated) - but because I don't want to.

I say these things to establish my perspective in this situation. I am well aware of macros and the power and utility they are capable of, but I'm not influenced to lessen restrictions on them due to any great benefit I get from them.

I don't dislike those who use macros for more things, but neither am I inclined to advise relaxing regulations either. The fact is that they make the game easier, in many ways - why else would we use them, if not for their beneficial aspect?

It's not fair to boil macros entirely down to economics, but their economic impact cannot be ignored.

Speaking of the economy in general (and super simplified): if I flood the market with an item, the value will naturally drop if there is no monopoly. if there is a monopoly, or a virtual monopoly, the item price will rise until others find a new source at lower prices. If i use a macro to get an item (or a bunch of items) easier than others, I will have an advantage over others in the game (economically and otherwise).

To me, Minecraft is about the struggle and the challenge of surviving and building things with your own skills; not how well I can code a bot or series of macros to play the game for me. I fear this is the slippery slope of macros down which we could easily slide. I believe this is where adequate regulations can save us from dooming ourselves.

To those who wave the flag of "play your way" I ask:

Is it the same game anymore if you aren't the one playing? If the difficult and tedious things have all been taken care of by a macro/bot?
When there is nothing to challenge you in the game anymore, where is the triumph? Where is the joy of playing?

As for regulation clarifications:

I don't think the clicks per second ruling makes sense, as it stands. Sure, in a burst, someone could click 5 or 10 times per second, but that isn't something that can be sustainedthe way a macro can be made to persist. We need more/better data for "average cps over 30-60 seconds" and set the limit based on that.

auto-respawn... well. I see no harm in the proposed change, as long as it is still forbidden "while afk or not paying attention" - it's just too easy to exploit and makes me nervous to allow. Of course, the restrictions of "no interactions with a Minecraft account while playing on another one" would still apply. and wouldn't that be tricky and annoying, remembering to stop playing in one window at just the right moment so your respawn-macro doesn't trigger while you're happily playing along in your other window.

I feel like this one has "trouble" written all over it. No great benefit and a lot of risk. If you need to click the death button so many times that it gets tedious and you need a macro for it, the chances that you're always paying attention to the game as you play it (and die over and over again) are ... slim, at best.

Honestly I have no understanding of the third point there. Sorry, Krysyy. I'd need to think about it more to weigh in on it.

As for time afk... this one is trickier. If I'm afk or not paying attention to my game, but the macro is still doing my work for me, no amount of time in this state is fair. If I get sucked into a YouTube rabbit-hole or a Netflix movie, or need to step away to get a drink, use the loo, get the door, or stop my cat being on fire - i need to disable my macro before I go, disconnect entirely, or be willing to submit to the appropriate checks and consequences from staff.
The current afk timer is 10 minutes, and that's quite a generous grace period for someone who is cheating. Of course, 0 (zero) minutes is unreasonable to enforce, but I would be more in favor of a lower threshold than higher.

edit:: because in the time it took me to write and polish this, some people supplied some average cps (over a minute/30s) data. I just added "more/" before "better data" in my cps section

Could someone (preferably a mod or other staff member) clarify what the difference between book-on-keyboard rules and macro rules are? Does the 10 clicks a second apply for book-on-keyboard AFK interactions?

I think that 5 clicks per a second is too low. What was the reasoning on proposing a reduction in it?

How about something like a 2.5 or 5 minute max limit of 10 CPS, and if anything continuous more than that time the limit would be lowered to say 5 CPS?

Huh? If you have a book on your keyboard, how does that make it click per interval?