Then you could perhaps wait for Krysyy's answer. ... is not something you should do when it is quite obvious that almost all participants in this thread wish to resolve the matter and not have endless digressions. Then you've got an authoritative answer. End of story. Thank you for your opinion, but it is not helping here. Also, I don't think Aikar needs advocates here. He is free (as in "private business") to decide what he wants. If Krysyy represents the company here, then she can talk in Aikars name and then there is no need for "Then you take it up to Aikar". Are you paying attention? Krysyy is far more than just a CM. It's what your and others digressions make of it - and what you think of it. This is no way going around in circles - other then through really unneeded digressions, distractions, misunderstandings, imputing etc. Read the OP again if you're really interested, and please, really, stop imputing.
Because the OP decided to change it, to reword it, it is clear if you read the first 2 pages or so. Re-read my posting please, I think you've missed an "if" there. This is so simple. When Krysyy gives an answer, does it have the authority of Aikar's, owners answer? Is there a need to bother Aikar if someone has a problem with it?
Then why not just ask that.... Also, what participants and resolve what matter? You are so vague its almost impossible to understand what is going on, all I can think is "Twilight zone."
[ When Aikar makes a ruling ] So why can't you accept the same from Krysyy? She is a community manager after all and she is the one who oversees the moderators. To an extend you can apply my previous comment above: there comes a time where you just have to accept a ruling. Agreed. But I think we won't agree on the origin of those distractions. For that lets take a look at the OP please, the post which defines this whole thread. This was about a Bill of Rights, about securing ... let me quote: Right now it doesn't look as if you're trying to get specific rights to be put onto the wiki, you're splitting hairs over who is the boss or not and who is controlling who. Worse, from my point of view, you're now also making it clear that you don't appreciate community input even though you yourself claimed to be representing that community and doing this on their behalf. How can you claim to work on behalf of the community if you deem community input "distracting and unneeded"? Even request that we don't comment? You can't have it both ways my friend. If you don't want community input you should have followed up on Krysyy's advice and have taken this to a private conversation. PS (edit): Hasn't the community already spoken up in the poll?
(A) Thread participants that asked to "stop going around in circles and get to the point" in one or another way. All that would like this not to take another 13 pages. (B) Primarily the concern addressed in the OP - which does depend on understanding the EMC community, which does depend on what Aikar wants (mission statement).
You've missed the point despite of that I've already explained above what I'm asking. Why can't you just wait for Krysyy and/or Aikar to respond? Can you quote anything from them that would answer the question? If not - why do you need to run around in circles over and over? It adds noise here more than anything else. Do you know what a CM does? What does a "community manager" manage? Neither that answers the question. Skipped the discussion about origins of distractions ... please, can we focus on the few questions and get answers from Aikar and Krysyy? I think we first need explicit confirmation from Aikar and Krysyy that rights are granted. There are two rights in the focus here - FoS and right to be protected. That's the important part. Ouch. No! I never claimed to represent the community. I was never asked from anyone here to represent them. I even stated that I realize that I'm a part of a minority in the discussion in this thread. There are important answers needed that can only come from Aikar as the owner of EMC / Starlis. This does in no way mean that I would in any way disregard community / others opinions. Please, really, stop imputing.
From the wiki page 'Meet the Staff': The very few times that someone has had an issue with my decision in the matter, they have taken it to Aikar without needing something written to say that they can. If someone expresses a problem with a decision of mine in a conversation with me, then I advise them to contact Aikar if they feel that I acted out of line. To be honest though, Aikar has far less patience to deal with things that are not tech related than I do. It's why my position exists in the first place. The less that Aikar is distracted from drama, repetitive game questions, etc, then the more he can focus on coding features and making sure we keep running smoothly. Not that he won't answer if you feel the need to include him in a conversation, but if it's my area, then he'll usually invite me in to handle it anyways. I also handle all ban appeals from any accounts that he bans, on the rare occasion he gets dragged into something. If I have a bug reported to me, then I invite him and the devs in. We work together as a TEAM. He handles the tech, I handle the non-tech. We collaborate where the 2 sides overlap or if we feel it's necessary. For example, this thread is non-tech and therefore Aikar has only given his public input a few times, when he felt the need to chime in due to your persistence at an answer from him instead of me. We talk outside of the public eye and collaborate on issues because we are a TEAM. So when you get an answer from me in public like this about policy, it's from the admin TEAM (as in both of us, if that wasn't clear enough). I am not going to rename this thread unless it is asked to be renamed by the original creator with a forum report.
If you want only krysyy ans aikar to answer, then just PM them. Is a public thread and every peraon has the right to "make noise"(according to you) in any thread. So by saying to not make noise, you are the one who makes the noise of this kinda useless thread. The way i see it is that you want to trouble peoples life saying that their personal description isnt complete. You can add to it by creating experiences with them(like getting to know them, etc), like the current mission states. You dont need to create drama because you can only believe what you read and not what you experience. --- Of topic: is there a way to ignore a thread, i mean to not see it in the most recent box?
My head hurts from reading all of this. And I don't usually respond to threads or discussions about things like this. But self-restraint isn't my strong suit. I agree with Shel in that this has literally been going in circles. All of our "rights" are, in a sense, spelled out in the ToS and the EMC rules. The rules tell you A) what not to do; and B) what you're able to report. Therefore, so long as you're not breaking said rules, you can do whatever you please. Those are your rights. Bam. If you're reported for what you believe is an unfair reason or no reason at all, you have the right to combat the report itself by discussing it with mods or staff. If you have been what you feel is unfairly banned, you have the right to appeal that ban. If you have a (specific) concern, you have the right to discuss it with staff, particularly Krysyy. What I can't wrap my head around is why you need an entirely new document. Additionally, if you're so hellbent (can I say that?) on having this Bill of Rights (which is an American thing btw; not everyone is from the states, love), write one. Dancing in circles and "debating" the same points when you've already been given some pretty clear answers isn't doing anything. For the OP and all 46 of you siding with him, get together in a private message and write up what you think the EMC Bill of Rights should be, then present it to staff, namely Krysyy, either in a new thread (and preferably lock this one) or via private message. That's literally the only productive solution I see here, and I'm shocked and quite honestly a bit disappointed that no one, in all of these 13 pages, has come up with that.
like i said earlier in the thread. you have a right to follow the rules you have a right to report when the rules arent followed you have a right to pm krysyy if the staff arent acting right and a right to pm aikar if krysyy is out of line thats your bill of rights.
Might i say with SSRC on a break the thread still thrives lol... Could you guys who are actually still in the thread move it to a PM?
If there is any right that I don't have but wish I did, it would be the "right to be free from bullshit that I want nothing to do with", ie this whole idea (reworded title or not). You know, the idea that 73% of EMC doesn't want anything to do with? inb4 "They voted based off of incorrect information or [blah blah blah]." No, they didn't. If they knew what a bill of rights was, they voted strictly off of that. If they didn't, they likely quickly googled it or potentially read the thread, then voted off of that. No one voted against it because they feared that anyone could get away with anything, that is just silly and it trivializes wishes of the majority of the server. Saying that other's votes are not valid because [this or that] but yours is does not allow you to ignore and toss aside the fact that we don't want this. All you are doing when you say that is attempting to suppress the majority of the community's voice. The continuation of this even after the it has been proven multiple times that we do not need this just reeks of typical "I know whats better than the people do" political bullshit.
Thank you for that answer! Can you please confirm that - Every member is welcome to freely and openly discuss and criticize the direction of the Server, the rules, policies, decisions and actions of the EMC staff in public threads in the forum.
wow, very clean cut and to the point. The bare bones rights. The only thing I MIGHT add would be "You have the right to leave any time you want." This is a free server, we did not have to pay to play here and they have not chained me up and held me captive. There are hundreds of other servers out there and this one is to my liking the way it is currently being run. Hmmmm something to think about, I hope Aikar dosent get tired of all this bickering and take his server and go home. Then we all will have to find another place to play.
Intentionally causing public drama is not allowed. Intentionally doing anything that is likely to cause public upset, arguments, riots, or any other negative action, for any reason, is not allowed. Anyone participating in public drama via threads, pictures, videos or any of EMC’s features, including, but not limited to the Forums, statuses and in-game Chat, will face consequences, as determined by Staff.
Just a word of advice; if you want the staff to even listen to you, you might want to make the title less...rude.
Surprisingly SSRCmegamall is currently not in the debate lol its just benn manic_m1ner and Krysyy essentially
No, that's not surprising and also what caused me to respond again (while knowing better). SSRC has taken a leave of absence and he's even expressed remorse for starting this thread in the first place. Which, in my opinion, made the whole thread pretty much redundant from that point on.
