While I understand the dismay of the players that are upset with this change, I must remind you that we never stated that we wouldn't be changing anything. Any preparation done for the 1.8 update was without any official staff announcement and based on rumors alone. Change has been the only constant throughout EMC's history. It's necessary to maintain growth and keep things going. Some changes ARE going to upset specific groups of people over others because they feel directly attacked by the change. However, another change down the road is going to affect another group, and so on. We've survived many changes including, but not limited to: entity limits, wastelands creation, owner changes, etc. This change is just another on a long list to help make EMC the best that it can be.
This is completely fair. There are some trades in 1.8 that, when used alongside 1.7 trades, can result in item duping, and general economy crashing.
I wasn't really going to comment on this thread, because it's sort of pointless. I have 3 infinite villagers that I made myself, but they were relatively easy/cheap to make, so it doesn't really bother me that they'll be gone. However, I do agree with you (for the most part) that if this is "to make 1.8 more fair" Aikar should also remove as many other things as he can to make it as fair as possible. I just feel bad for the people that just spent thousands of rupees for someone to make them an infinite villager. And I understand changes need to be made, but saying "you never said changes won't be made" is kind of apathetic and doesn't really make anyone more willing to accept the changes. Like I said, it doesn't bother me either way, it just sucks for a lot of people and I think it could've been handled better and people could've been given more of a notice.
Not rumors alone, but based on extensive testing in vanilla Minecraft as well as observations on other Bukkit 1.8 servers. EMC did say they wouldn't when they said, "as close to vanilla Minecraft as possible." I cannot imagine a scenario in which a more specific promise would have been given. Nobody specifically said, "I won't destroy all your villagers when I update to 1.8," but it would have been really weird if they did. More so, Aikar's post attempts to strongly imply that we were all wrong about 1.8 and that this happened because of the update. That isn't factual. The people who spread those "rumors" did so after looking into the issue for quite some time. You are discrediting them pretty offhandedly. Life is full of change, and while that speech was quite moving, it doesn't really excuse (or mean) anything. The gist of it seems to be "we're coming for you now, but don't worry we'll get some other people later." Not much comfort to me. This change is being done in the name of "fairness." That's just silly. Fair to whom?
I think the problem for me is not the infinite villagers. I am happy that they are really unnecessary in 1.8. My problem is that I was misinformed that things would be the same for existing 1.7 villagers and didn't bother to get other trades in before they go away. Book trades and enchanted item trades will possibly be gone or changes. In addition, the new blacksmith will be entirely different. Now diamond gear will be vastly diminished in trades. Boots, leggings and helms to name a few things will go away. This just means more mining for diamonds I guess. No big deal in the long run, but being misinformed means that I should have closed some of my shops sooner. Thant's all.
i think two things need to be mentioned. first off, yall are being a little hasty sure its a pain and a waste of money for some but for a larger amount who used their infinite villagers you got your money out of it. and while i think this could of been handled better then brute forcing through it like aikar did, claiming that its an earth shattering event is a bit of an over-reaction. as for aikar, perhaps some middleground could be reached here, maybe leave villager mechanics the way they are for like a week while those of us who paid alot of money for these utilize them to their fullest or even a compromise in the code? cause less the three days notice is kid of unfair dont you think? i mean as far as everyone was concerned you basically said "sure ill finance your car" and then when we got a job as a taxi you backed out. please take some time to consider how this affects some of us and use that big ole brain of yours to solve this for all of us
EMC is still vanilla at its core, but has had to make (and will continue to make) changes that improve the quality for the server community side of things. The bugs and imbalance that allowing the villager issue to persist would cause is enough of an issue and exploit that EMC is having to take action and disable some features. This is not the only time we have deviated nor will it be the last. Mojang's Minecraft was not created with server management in mind nor do they make that any type of priority in their to-do list for players that are in these giant communities. The changes we make are to ensure that the fundamental game mechanics of Minecraft AND our community can coexist in as close a compromise as possible. And yes, we are sorry for the short notice, but we are blindsided by changes we discover in the testing process and after trying to work around things to no avail, we have to make these kinds of decisions. That's what the testing time is for and we are still testing...
Stupid changes like this are why I have not been as active ingame recently. Not gonna lie. The Senior Staff and higher that claim "We cannot participate in the economy" must be lying because this, along with making it illegal to sell certain items sound like participating to me. It is Extremely unnecessary to change the villagers, sees how if Mojang Thought it was a bug, why have they never questioned it, and never done a single thing about it. It's really shitty to see All the hard work, blood, sweat, and tears I've put into making All of my villagers just get reset by Aikar for the sole reason that 'He' thinks it is a bug. To be completely honest, I have not paid real life money for supporter in a year. It has probably even been longer than that. I have just used supporter vouchers for this account and my alts. I was Actually considering Paying real life money again, to help out EMC because I know how hard things are for Aikar and Krysyy right now. But I am not even going to consider Paying someone who's going to destroy all of my Hard work, this is basically resetting all the Hundreds of man-hours I've spentwasted on my villager, infinite and not infinite. Why Ruin our villagers, when you could be using your time coding Dragon Tombs. The idea was proposed and hype was starting being generated Over 3 Years Ago! But hey, let's grief your villagers instead. Who Really cares about Dragon Tombs. Now before you say "Bro stop hating on EMC" or something dumb like that, keep this in mind: I am calm, I am only speaking on what I Truly and Honestly think, and I think this is Completely unnecessary. #MassiveShout-OutToMyMumblePeeps
Blindsided? 1.8 was a while ago. Who are we being fair to exactly? To be clear, you keep saying, "bug." It is not a bug. It was intentionally made so that 1.7 villagers could survive the transition to 1.8. The issue is that EMC is in need of many, many productive fixes (i.e. protecting our land in the wilderness from griefing), but you seem to be more fixated on defending one of the most destructive ideas I've ever seen based on fairness toward some unknown object or some player that doesn't even exist yet... The server has run smoothly for some time with villagers, and I don't think such drastic measures are necessary. Y'all would know that if you asked the community before implementing such terrible, terrible ideas.
Okay... So no more infinite trades? Fine. The villagers current trades are going to reset with the change, to avoid some issues? Fine. BUT... Are we still going to be able to get villagers that trade items like the Efficiency V, Unbreaking III, Infinite I books? I don't care if I have to start over. I've done it once, I can do it again. I just want to know if I'll ever be able to get villagers that trade those types of items again, before I go and waste ton of time trying to get what it isn't there.
So after hearing a lot of talk about how 1.8 vanilla would retain villager trades and how everyone knew about this because it's common knowledge I did what I think some of you should have been doing. I actually tested this for myself. Please find my "Villager school" save file here, meant to be used in MC 1.7 and then converted to MC 1.8. Welcome to villager school! Sorry to break this to you guys but you're wrong. Villager trades which were consistent in 1.7 are not retained in 1.8 vanilla "per definition". Please try this for yourself... The villager on the left is locked into a few specific trades: 11 books -> one emerald 3 emeralds -> one bookshelf 11 emeralds -> one clock one written book -> one emerald 10 emeralds -> one compass one book + 45 emeralds -> one enchanted book 1 emerald -> 4 glass Like I said: try this for yourself. Trade him out of business (lock all trades) then work on the glass trade and wham... All trades unlock but nothing new is added. The villager remains locked in these trades. Now for the test.. Fire up MC 1.8, load in this same world and start trading again. Not much retaining done here... You'll notice that the first villager suddenly got a lot of new extra trades. The rest of these guys are no different. The one on the right is just spawned and has 1 trade: 10 emeralds for one clock. And the very moment you load this world into 1.8 he suddenly has 3 extra trades out of nowhere. Without having ever been traded to. So don't blame EMC for stuff which Mojang did. That seems highly unreasonable to me. Villager trades from 1.7 are not retained per definition when going to 1.8.
My initial reaction: yay. I never liked infinite villagers much. That's one thing in the game I thought was overpowered due to the potential trades have. Infinite silk touch books for 6 emeralds? Sell it for 1k. Infinite villagers essentially take a cheap item, worth under 1 rupee, and, with absolutely no effort, turn it into 30r. How exactly does that seem fair?
Yay! I wasted 39,999 rupees for nothing! Thanks Aikar! EDIT: Maybe you could have gotten all of the threads selling them closed a month or so in advance? Then that would stop people wasting their money on a normal villager. Before anyone says 'well, Aikar couldn't have set and exact date', as soon as he decided to do that he could have closed them. I love spending 40k on a villager!
Yes there are changes, but they are not reset to 1.8 villagers. Perhaps you've been hearing different rumors than I. I don't know that anyone said they would be identical to before the transition, but rather that specific existing trades would be retained, and some even improved, by the transition to 1.8. The behavior you have described is the desired behavior. Again, it isn't what Mojang did, but rather the last minute idea EMC had to alter it. Additionally, the reason cited was "fairness." I'm still curious about that.
Mojang also doesn't see the creation of giant automatic mob farms (or placing a million minecarts/animals in one place =P) as an issue either, but we had to limit that to increase server efficiency and so that the servers didn't die on us. Mojang's problem solving teams are not focused on how a 'feature' will affect the server communities with economies. They couldn't care less as they've said multiple times. We therefore have to take what they present and tweak it so that it fits into our community. Some tweaks are more severe than others, but the goal is to maintain the server community the best that we are able.
The economy is fine... What exactly is going to ruin the game if you don't destroy the villagers, and how have we kept it from ruining the game this whole time?
This whole discussion involves around infinite villagers. How people feel "cheated out" of their hard work because all off a sudden villagers aren't infinite anymore. What I'm demonstrating above is that the upgrade to 1.8 alone could have caused that to happen as well. There are no guarantees that villagers remain locked in their trades. So basically there is no guarantee to begin with that people would keep their infinite villagers the very moment the server was upgraded. Even without Aikar's changes. You argue against these last minute EMC decisions, but all arguments I've read so far boil down to protests that the infinite villagers aren't being maintained. Opinions I most certain respect. But as said: there isn't any guarantee that these trades would remain locked in the first place.
