Mistakes and sanity

I think the case is still the same. It might be a bit looser now, as we have more detailed logs, ect. but it still remains.

Well we are talking about misstakes, you could still pretend you got confused in what perm u gave or that you took the wrong player accidently, but I dont want to go into detail to much. I just wanted to mention, that those cases are out there as well and might need some policy as well. To me it doesnt really matter, I'm careful enough that I haven't had any of those cases in all my gaming years so I dont worry about it.

Discussing every single ban - no, we have moderators for that.
Discussing typical incidents and punishments - yes, a community needs that for a healthy development.
Discussing extraordinary situations and incidents - yes, a community needs that for a healthy development.

Expression of human nature in this community is not very different than in RL,
so I think it is obvoius thing to take (small) hints from how things are dealt with IRL.
If we want a healthy development of the community.

As I understand, also based on experience in different RL and virtual communities, moderators job is to moderate, to assist, help and even to mediate between the community and the service provider. A moderator is someone who cares about people and about the community and is part of the community.
For a moderator, "we" is the community.

Moderators job is not to act as (police) force on behalf of the service provider.
IMO, this is important. To have moderators that are part of the community and act on behalf of the community.

My impression is that it is every now and then ... let's say suboptimal.

Well, what kind of "community" can not decide about it's own life?
As I wrote, the community needs representatives / moderators who will act on behalf of the community.
But general direction and input has to come from the community, or it simply won't work.

This is a problem, because it is part of the community life and members should know that and have option to participate.
Some things need to be distinguished -
- the right of the service provider to exclude someone from the service due to breaking of the terms of service (even there, the community should know and give some input, in the end because the provider needs the community and loses if the community has low quality or breaks)
- the need of a community for a healthy life, to care about members, to have moderators, to have rules and make and adjust them

A lot of theory ... here some possible practice:
Deal with (at least minor) offenses within the community, care about all members, even offenders - this makes a community strong:

Of course it may seem that it is easier just to ban, but IMO, if the ban is not obviously needed to prevent repeating of the offense, and also if a player was banned, it would be better:
- that the moderator contacts the offender (over the forum and perhaps a small notice in the game if possible)
- that the moderator tries to moderate and mediate, to get damage undone if possible, things straighten out
- that the moderator then judges about a fine / punishment, and the offender can accept or appeal (then to other moderator(s))
Is this a lot of work? I think so.
Moderating is (should be) caring about people and the community.

I've suggested this some time ago, but it seems that posting is not accessible any more, I think the thread was hidden or deleted.
IMO opinion, this would have several positive effects:
- dealing with offense within the community would increase awareness, members would learn from it
- punishing within the community is dealing with the problem, is caring (also) for the offender, contrary to excluding from the community ("go away")
- dealing with the problem within the community can straighten it out, simply excluding members usually not
- it would strengthen the community bonds, give more substance to the community

"I've done something wrong, and this community did not expel me, but has actually helped me. Wow!"

Is this community strong and mature enough to deal with and care about its members humanely?

It depends on what kind, what circumstances and what mass of stealing.
Is there anyone among us who never stole anything?
Plan and carry out a robbery? About 5-10 Years.
Steal an apple on the market? Admonishment.
... you get what I mean. If we care about those people, we will try to find the adequate action.
Oversimplifying and saying "stealing = ban" is IMO not optimal.

Also, if you tell tge shop owner early on, you will most likely gain the trust of that player, or at least your name will be remembered on the good list.

I didn't have perms for any person on my res and some fairly expensive things were stolen. they could also try to access your account which i think is what happened to me i believe.

The rules are outright given to those in the guide, and breaking them leads to a ban. There's no need for discussion. We did recently ask (on a level that we could) how members would like punishments dealt. The overwhelming consensus was that we are too nice. We are never going to poll the community on what we should do with a player. It leads to too much drama, and too slow of action.

http://empireminecraft.com/threads/results-emc-rule-enforcement.17614/

You don't understand.

... "Public forum moderators often have to enforce many rules of conduct and decorum..."

Source: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-forum-moderator.htm

Take a look at other games and see what the staff does, it's exactly the same. Staff are the end all of rule enforcement. Other than system bans here, a moderator or staff is behind every kick and ban on the server.

And that's what we do. We enforce the rules on behalf of the community to make this server the place we all choose to play. We've asked for general ideas before from the community as seen above and below, and that's as far as it will go. It's unreasonable, unfair, and unethical to allow a vote on each ruling without the individuals having all of the information. We aren't giving out member access to square anytime soon.

http://empireminecraft.com/threads/results-emc-rule-enforcement.17614/

To quote the terms and conditions page:
Termination
We reserve the right to terminate any account entirely, or restrict access to certain services on EMC for violation of these Terms & Use Conditions or the spirit of them. You may close your account at any time by contacting support@EmpireMinecraft.com; it may take up to 48 hours to complete this request from the time it is received.

This is precisely what I'm getting at. In YOUR opinion stealing isn't bannable - yet:

2. Thou Shalt Not Steal
Do not steal from other players, even if you find an unlocked player chest in the wilderness or if you have container permissions on another players lot. If you are caught doing so you will permanently banned.

The rules are laid out before every player that joins the server. They are given every chance to follow them, they know that "stealing = ban" and were therefore aware that it would be the punishment of their actions. What your implying is that some stealing is allowed? Or if you steal a little you get to come back after a tempban? Players are offered a chance to appeal and that's part of the process. We want to see whether they are sorry for their actions, whether they admit fault, and a general feel of whether they will be problematic / rulebreaking in the future.

Behind the scenes, a lot more goes into most bans than you believe. Each ban has a history and reasoning written up on it for notes and records.

Nobody has issues with any of the punishments except 1. Those banned. 2. Their friends who of course are going to play the "White Knight". If we ever have an issue with anything we go to the moderators. I've even heard members asking them in Mumble about things. Most of us look out for each other and most of us follow the rules. That's also why some of us who try to help the Mods with the rules and catch those breaking them are given flack and labeled as "narcs" or "favorites."


We have had members in the past who were banned repeatedly and never learned their lesson and are now either perm-banned or it finally sunk in "Hey if I get on here and act like a "donkey" then I'm going to be banned again." and are on an alt, behaving like civilized people. There are also those who repeatedly break the rules and get banned forever. That's why the new ban stance has came into effect. People spoke up and voiced how they felt about some members being banned forever over something whereas another did something and got a slap on the wrist.

Also there are people who have never stolen a thing. Don't lump everyone together.

Exactly, and this isn't League of Legends.

yer this is messed up
first of all shop keepers should cap their chest and double check their prices
no offence mods but i really think u are all over reacting
i know plenty of ways of ways of buying stuff from malls their using villagers or crafting and other ways and sell it back to make a profit, in nearly every "mega mall" i look at
i dont do it but i easily can think way others do and i personal think we need another approach in this so it won't even happen in the first place
look at irl, when someone goes bankrupt or something because of something they stuffed up in and did not check twice they take the consequences and i think this should apply here

Sanity is something I left behind long ago - as for mistakes lol quantum branching

yes thats right nearly every mega mall i see tons of mistakes

Yeah lol shame though that some ppl still do act that way and then get banned -> Not-apealable

This isn't real life. This is a Minecraft server that people log on to each day to have fun on. There's people that would take advantage of someones mistake/are dishonest and then there's everyone else, so I think it's great that you are perm-banned for cheating now - if you ruin the fun for everyone else, you should face the consequences.

screw this i m making a service that will find all the things that people can profit off in ur mall

I don't know if that's such a great idea...

I'm sure this'll put you in ICC's/the mods good books. /sarcasm

screw the good book i have been banned for pretty much everything there is to be banned for besides hacking

Well then, I believe that you will get banned again.

probably but u know so people get on my last nerve

Well Coffee I dont think this is the way to go. You had your opinion and you got an answer which was not offensive at all. This is an open discussion and all sides are equally in right. Turning agressive over this is very unprofessionell and your opinion looses its meaning.

If I may give you a tip what I would do in your position, to get out of this like a grown member of this community. Make an excuse for you turning this agressive and let this discussion go ahead without you. You dont need to excuse yourself to any special person but to all readers. Next time you see a discussion you need to tell yourself that joining it will most likely bring opposition. So dont write if you can't deal with it. Even on your last post there will be answeres, which aren't as understanding as mine. You will get strong opposition. You need to take that now. You need to step us as a men / or women and give an excuse. This way your opinion will keep at least SOME weight in this discussion.

I hope you react in a professionel manner