Mistakes and sanity

Um, right thread?

Expect.... What?

Where do you think our staff team came from?
Joking. <--- I am tired. EXTREMELY tired. I should go to sleep now. I'm not typing right

And the people who don't go on the forums

Exactly!

The staff were coded by Justin to run the servers - they are not mere mortals.

That explains why the chicken has a robotic eye thing...

Just funny that's all

So lets all be good people and tell shop owners that they have a loophole... but what if Shop A sells wheat 1 for 5 rupees, and Shop B BUYS 1 wheat for TEN rupees, so you can go back and forth between the two shops gaining 5r per wheat. Would you tell shop B the "loophole" or both shops?

Haha, wheat is perfect for villager trading...

But, once you buy something, it is yours to do what you want. Right?

From an EMC rules standpoint, yes.
From a shop owners viewpoint, no, as some of them disagree with resale for some reason.

I knew I wasn't the only one who sees that. That's why I nicknamed him The Chickenator.

Thanks . Honestly I'd probably be like Gap, I believe is who posted, and would feel guilty if I didn't let someone know/exploited something.

In this example, it is not a "loophole" at all, it is a normal situation on the market,
when the demand (and/or the supply) in one region (on one server) is significantly
higher or lower than in the other region / server.
In order for the market and economy to function, the stuff will flow from the
server / shop where it is cheaper towards the server / shop where it is more expensive
until the price stabilizes and the difference is not high enough any more.

This (re)selling is normal and required for the market and economy to function.
It has to be distinguished from "malicious reselling", where buying out a shop
does not occur due to differences in supply and demand and differences in prices.
I plan to address this topic and offer some solutions for some time now, I plan
to start a dedicated thread.

As I've written in the -> OP, the usual rule is to compare the price to the average market price.
If you find a shop where you can buy for less than half of the market price,
or you find a shop where you can sell for more than double of the market price,
then it is a good idea to, well then you really should ask the shop owner first.

In your example: if the average market price for wheat would be 7r for 1 wheat
(it is not, this is just an example), then buying for 5r and selling for 10r goes without asking,
but buying for under 3.5r or selling for over 14r not.

Vice versa, if you buy something and then (soon enough) find out that it was
overpriced or under priced, then you can compare the price with the average
market price. If you have paid less than half or more than double of it, then
you can go to the seller and ask to return the item(s) or to adjust the price.
In some countries, if it is obvious that the price was far too high,
or far too low, the seller (or buyer) is required (upon request from the other party)
to take/give the stuff back or adjust the price.

The economy and market are not there (and/or should not be there) to outsmart
or to fool people, but for exchange of goods and services and for development
of the community. Fair play. Play fair.

As someone who has had a shop typo exploited while I watched, I agree that yet should be some punishment for doing so. I lost several stacks of diamonds without so much as a thank you are an apology, although it was clearly a mistake. Perhaps there could be a system of fines, warnings and bans, like the first offense gets a small fine and a warning, second gets a decent fine and some time off, and third a large fine or reasonable temp ban. Although it is the seller's fault, people DO make mistakes. I feel we shouldn't me made to suffer for what we didn't mean to do.

I've written above that I did not know them - Pavlova, masterpav and Stealthopig well.
I did not know ByMarky at all.
I remember Pavlova as polite in chat, asked few times politely for help,
I think I've shown her/him where and how to get sandstone and sand. Pavlova
was mostly buying diamonds and Item frames from my shop. My impression
was somehow that it is a rather new player, I see now that she/he is/was a
member for almost a year.
Everyone makes mistakes and has an own learning and development path.

I've written in what way it affects me - I worry if people (even offenders) are treated
gentle, with respect and clemency as I think that this is important for any community.
It makes people (feel) safe and secure when a community cares about all members and
recognizes and respects human nature and at least basic human rights.
Perhaps I'm more sensitive then average around this topic because I have experienced
and learned how things can (frightening easily) go wrong and how a whole
society / community can become (mentally, socially, morally) sick and damaged.

It's not a fault, but (as you write) clearly a mistake.

As I wrote, I suggest:
1 - only in case of imminent danger: immediate temporary ban
2 - informing the offender, giving chance to explain, apologize, roll the things back / repair damage and make clear it won't happen again
3 - adequate warning, fine and/or ban
4 - adequate action for repeated offense

Suggestion: If an immediate ban is needed because of imminent danger, and the offender or relevant parties could not be already contacted, always make it a temporary ban (I think 10 days ban could be like period of remand, giving enough time for everyone involved), and change later, after contacting all parties and reviewing the information, to permanent ban if adequate.

This is how it works in most societies and I think there are good reasons for this practice.

A mistake in the sense that you'll regret it post-ban but as you're doing it and thinking about it's certainly no mistake, IMO (it's the same for everything really)

I'm one of those people that will do a /res move false if I catch a reseller. But in most cases I only do it after 1) the player admits it or 2) proof. Even then I just give a warning.

But even though I dislike it, I would definitely not want to see a player get banned or in trouble for it.

Makes it hard to stay in stock for builders and other people that aren't going to profit.

But that's probably another topic for another day, just wanted to add a little.

Sorry if that was unclear; I meant that as the seller shouldn't be punished for something they didn't mean to do... But now that I think about it, I guess it is the sellers fault if they fail to troubleshoot. But in my case, I had no time to troubleshoot... It's complicated. Maybe different instances should be judged differently depending on circumstances/details.
(I'm rely tired right now,so sorry if some of this is misspelled, weird or blindingly obvious )

There are many, many ideas - well, this is like a central question of human race - how to organize a community and a society, how to provide for successful development and peace?

For me personally, there are two groups of experiences -
I lived for some time in an authoritarian state, in dictatorship in RL and I've learned a lot about how and why things happen. I've left it, I emigrated more or less as soon as i was able to. Eventually, that system went down in flames, with thousands killed.

I'm a person who likes to know how things work, I think it is good to keep asking how and why and how and why and keep putting a question marks after about all things and statements. As more I learn, I'm more and more convinced ... nothing is as it seems.

Second experience: in the new society where I've moved to (a democracy, well at least kind of ), I soon started to recognize traits and patterns of behavior that I knew so well. Was that a surprise? Partially.
It is not that a specific people or groups or religions or nations are just bad. There are very well differences in mentality, culture, customs and they propagate from generation to generation. But all people have quite big common traits and patterns of behavior, and it depends on the circumstances which traits will be boosted and which suppressed.

There are big differences in societies and in law systems, but AFAIK there is none that would be really a perfect to live in. Perhaps that's just natural: Diversity
Favorite democracies: Switzerland, (some unoccupied ranks), Finland, Norway, Sweden, Germany, (some unoccupied ranks), US (well perhaps a selection of states ... c'mon it's not that bad ... well I just had to mention US )
(sorry If I omitted anyone deserving to be mentioned ... it's just personal list)

You know that democracy is a bad and flawed system.
Krysy writes "The community is biased towards their own profit and a fair judgement would become impossible."
LOL
Panda writes "There aren't elections because that would just be a chaotic popularity contest."
Hehe, people here do know how bad it can be.
Yet, from the historical experience, it is kind of the best system we know. .... Is it?

I've read about gaming communities that have community servers (as compared to servers' community), have democracy, elections etc - also around Minecraft. I've forgotten the names, too tired to google that now...
Perhaps you would ask why I don't move then.
Hehe
I've moved in RL, so I already have that experience, already tried that

This is similar in many countries.
About all democracies I've mentioned and many others publish the relevant court documents and processes are discussed in the media in detail. Sometimes even over the measure of good taste, well everything has its drawbacks.
Court acts and decisions are publicly available. Where I live you can access the database through Internet and browse.
How would you base a judgment on precedents if the details of precedents would not be known?

Well, mostly not just "for my business," but yes, they can
(And perhaps the imprisoned did not break the law, or did not get adequate punishment)
- By changing the law in question and applying the change retrospectively
- By pardoning
- By demanding further investigations and pressing the government, the investigation and the jurisdiction to do their job decently
- any other legal ways?
EDIT: - they sometimes storm the prison and release the prisoners ... remember 14 July 1789?

-> Open society?
-> Human rights?

I don't say EMC should convert to democracy tomorrow by a decree from an authority.
If the community here does not want democracy, then it would be very undemocratic to have one.
Few adjustments here and there and an authoritarian system can also evolve ... I mean peacefully
All of this is very well known from the history...

I'd like to motivate people to think about the community and the people, about how this community reflects ourselves, our mentality and our capabilities (we are here from many countries, nations and continents), how we can draw parallels between this community and this virtual world and the "RL." I'd like to motivate people here to be gentle, respectful, to accept human nature and reject any homophobia, to be generous and broadminded, to show clemency.

I think that people, especially kids, learn a lot from on-line games and on-line community. I think it does matter.

^^ Longest post I've ever seen!