Can non-breeding animals be looked at for a different rule, like a stack, 5 stacks or something other than a dc? EG: Bats, Polar Bears, Parrots and I believe Squids are it. I do not think mules would be counted since they can be bred even though not directly.
Members should be free to create any auction that makes sense economically, with any meaningful quantities. What is a meaningful quantity changes with the changes in the economy and should not be fixed with any specific rules. Additionally, if (really that) many members do like joke auctions (like auctioning one piece of dirt), then there should be a forum section just for that purpose. The quantity restrictions were originally (long, long time ago, on EMC far, far away) created just to prevent joke auctions and to simply reduce amount of the auctions (!) and the thus the needed moderation effort. It is an example for unsuitable rules that create more harm then good overall.
I really think the rules should stay as is. I was on a server that did not have restrictions and people would auction a wooden pick or 2 sticks. It ended up clogging the forums, etc... And although some might think it is hilarious that someone is trying to sell one piece of dirt many don't see the humor in that. Plus, if you want to advertise some quantity that doesn't meet the auction rules you could still advertise it on a selling thread.
I have to disagree there. First problem is chaos. This would mean that the rules could change on a whim. Sometimes players already have problems picking up the right quantities, I fear that this could only make things worse and create more confusion. Also: who gets to decide what is a meaningful quantity? I think a SC of coal blocks is meaningful (please ignore the fact that's just what I have in my storage right now (I am jesting, but I'm also addressing a problem here!)) but someone else who just spend an hour on getting 5 stacks of coal blocks may feel that's reasonable ("After one IRL hour of work..."). But players who often use /v +bulk on SMP8 (only mentioned because I know it from mind) and are accustomed to dealing with 1DC trades are bound to consider the current amounts fair. But finally... I can't help think that the rules on those quanties also help to create challenges. I wasn't fully kidding with that SC of coal blocks. I'm planning to auction one as soon as I mined the whole thing together. That's a challenge for me. And on the other hand: because there is a limit it also keeps the availability low / controlled. Thus creating a challenge for the bidders to get their hands on something. You don't see auctions for coal blocks happening every week for example, and that drives the prices up which creates more drive for people to auction this. That wouldn't happen when there was some of a free for all. Easier doesn't always mean better I like your thinking though! Agreed. But... how many members do actually like this? Isn't it possible that because you hardly see these kinds of auctions they're somewhat special? This is just my 2 cents but I think that if such a forum were to be created it might get more heavily used in the first 1 or 2 weeks, but after that the fun will wear off. Ayups. Unless specified otherwise always follow the default rules (those which are already in place) for new products. Even if it means it might get ridiculous or impossible. At one brief moment (this already changed!) we could only auction totems of undying in DC quantities. That wasn't an issue of "rules are rules" but "this is the default, staff has yet to make a ruling so please follow the default".
Perhaps, but there's much better way to answer that than to have quantity rules as on EMC. Again, if there is a need in the community to have more auctions, why not answer that need in a good way? Why would rules need to change suddenly? I see no need. You mean chaos when members who are not aware of the change in rules would shout "wrong quantity"? But that would be quite a bad reason for not improving rules. Economy. The nature of demand, supply, production costs and needed effort around auctions. Creating an auction and attending to it requires work. Let's say it's around 20 minutes for an average auction. Given current rupee value, the needed effort is worth around 3,500 r. That means there's no sense in making an auction with value of items under some 30k. The costs around it are too high. Like a game around auctions, but that was never a reason - and I think it wouldn't be a wise thing to do. As i described, the quantity rules were established just to reduce the amount of auctions, just to reduce the needed moderation effort. Note that there's also the "one auction per account" rule, but that one has additional reasons. Availability of what? Who wants to keep it low? Who needs to control it and why? Who would need to artificially influence any prices and why? Probably not many, but this was / is the reason for having quantity rules. To prevent joke auctions. I expect that over 90% would fall into one or both of these categories: - members learning how to make and attend to an auction, so their goal is not to sell, but to learn - members who like joke auctions like auctioning a piece of renamed dirt or two sticks Convenient trade is a crucial requisite of the EMC community. EMC is not an "ecnonmy server" - the economy here follows the needs and the development of the community. The rules and the forum structure should follow the needs of the community and its economy and not the other way around. For sure, there are much better ways to achieve the goal than to have clumsy and silly quantity rules.
Nothing is as flexible as our EMC economy (EMConomy? Forgive me the short pun here ). If you want the rules to follow the market then they should also be able to follow changes in that market. And sometimes prices can change dramatically in short time. I still recall the first shulker shells for example. But there is sense to it. Sure, effort goes into an auction but price advantages also come out. People bid against each other, sometimes people bid because they want to 'win' over the other which gives the auction host a direct and immediate advantage over a player who sells their items in a shop. The margin may not be as high, but that doesn't make an auction useless. Availability of certain items. For example items which can't be gained from farms. This isn't about direct control but simply the market which controls itself. To continue with the example of the DC of coal blocks: it takes effort to collect that. And because coal can't be mined you see that it's not commonly available within the auctions, at least not as much as promos and other regular items are (iron, promos, wool, etc.).
That's good. In a broader sense, community is economy. It is about sharing, exchange, development. Therefore the rules need to be to the point, made to achieve the goal in the best possible way, as far as possible without harmful side effects. There shall be no rules where rules are not needed. Over-regulation is harmful. That's what I'm saying. If there is sense to it, then it should be allowed. That has nothing, and should have absolutely nothing to do with quantity rules. Interventions into Players Economy, into demand and supply, is something that EMC staff has several times vowed not to do. We can consider that from the other side. Goals: - in auctions, members should be free to choose quantities as it makes sense to them - joke auctions (if allowed) and auctions made just to learn (should be allowed) should not "clog the forum" nor the "real auction thread" - auctions (any type) should not "clog the forum" - members time should not be wasted, it should be easy to find "real" auctions, where market value of auctioned items is far higher than the effort needed around the auction and bidding - it should be easy to find current auctions - all members, including those with less experience, should have, as simple as possible, guidelines to distinguish between "real" auctions and "other" auctions - EMC should get rid of immature, silly and/or clumsy rules
Is it just me or is it starting to become a forum tradition that this thread flares up for two weeks then goes back to hibernating 2-4 times a year?
I think it tends to pop up when there is a new item(s) in an update that people want to auction in smaller quantities. In this case, parrots.
Yeah you can't edit your posts here, sometimes things slip through. I obviously meant farming But isn't that just what we got right now? Don't get started on "they're not needed" topic right away because that's obviously a point open to discussion, instead lets focus on the player base. An excellent example (IMO) can be seen above. Bunji wasn't sure about the auction rules for concrete, fell back to the standard auction rules. So without having to add nor change any rules the current set could be applied just fine on items which weren't a part of the game when all this started. Bunji asked in the open, how many players did not and just applied those rules? (about item availability) But this isn't about demand and supply. That's not how auctions work in the first place. Supply and demand only help keep the prizes in check, and as you know staff doesn't regulate those. They tried at one brief time with the dirt destroying ticking tock, the community sent out some protests and a sane middle ground was found (you can auction one, but only if you clearly state that you can buy it at /shopworld for 60k). All supply & demand does is make people get a little more careful when the auction hits a certain threshold. What's also noteworthy is that these rules mimic real life as well, which makes them even more sane to me. In real life most auctions also apply entrance rules. Either the items need to meet a certain minimum value (such as antiques) or we're talking about (wait for it...) minimum quantities of items. For example... Christie's auction house, in the UK, is a well known company. They auctioned some very famous items and most people within the industry know the name by heart. So, how do you sell at Christies? Well... You can only sell items which they deem appropriate for selling at their auction house. This can be determined by value (art), state of the items and even quantity (like parcel sales, done with specific items such as wine). It's not a free for all. And most auction houses apply these kinds of rules, so why would the Empire be any different? I think the current rules make the Empire auction section look much more professional than what you commonly see on other servers: where anything can be auctioned off (usually automatically) and as a result you sometimes get spammed with auctions which no one is interested in. Once again I have to share my disagreement. Partly because of what I said above but also.... How many players would actually agree with this I wonder? So... Would you care if I/we/someone set up a poll for this? It might give us a nice (better!) thread to discuss, other players can more easily share their opinion on the whole thing (anyone can answer a poll) and who knows... Note: I don't suggest we turn this into a popularity contest, merely that we check what other players think about this. After all: this isn't just about you and me Yeah well, this gives us players who don't have anything to auction nor the funds to bid on auctions something to do as well
The parrots decision is going to be finalized today. As we've said before, the rules are there for a reason. You may not like that reason, but please don't turn this thread into a debate over it. You won't get us to remove them.
I don't think people want the rules removed, just changed. Although I am on the side of keeping them as is, with the exception of mobs that can't breed. Those should be auctioned in quantities of 54. I can totally see where you're coming from however if you open up auctions like that, you get these new players (no offense intended, but we all know it takes them a while to learn) auctioning off 3 cobblestone because they're in a rush to make rupees. It just doesn't make sense to make an entire thread to auction something in such a small quantity. If you want to sell things in tiny amounts, that's what shop signs are for. You can build a shop, make a thread for that shop and then you have just one thread that lasts for weeks or months or in some cases years, and you've got the option to add any other items you want to sell. Additionally, in my humble opinion, it's way more satisfying to collect a whole DC of cobblestone and auction it off or build a shop than it is to constantly make threads to sell 3 cobblestones. Just my 2 cents though (That's right Shell, I stole your line) =)
Yeah, thought that already. Though, you're actually still wrong! Coal can definitely be farmed! How? Wither skeletons. They drop coal, and there exist many wither skeleton farms on EMC, and they are quite efficient too!
