M4ster_M1ner+++1 Karma for Giving Helpful and Constructive Criticism(and not just shooting this down)
various people are simply not treating others kindly, SSCR has simply asked for a bill of rights and now a few particular people are being mean to him about it! Kephras for example you may think this is a waste of time or what not but why be rude about it, it is not necessary. Nothing nice to say then please don't say anything I agree that we should be able to speak our minds as long as we use our words wisely. I rarely participate in sharing of such opinions because I to love this server and wish to play on it. When people have to be afraid to speak their opinions due to the possibilities of getting punished then that's where the line is crossed, no one can simply FORCE us to share their opinion. No player,mods, senior staff, etc can punish us for not saying what they want to hear! Sure the server may not be a type of government but that doesn't mean we don't have the same rights! We should all be able to share opinions, address grievances, etc! Not be afraid to!
If EMC staff are committed to not doing silly stuff like arbitrarily censoring people (and as I understand, they are committed) then yes, maybe a bill of rights would make sense. But obviously, as a private service, EMC isn't obliged to do so.
The facts aren't always "nice," I'm sorry to say. Nothing I have said was intended to cause offense, to be "cruel" or "bullying" in any fashion, and I apologize if you feel I'm personally attacking you for presenting an opposing opinion. The fact of the matter is, however, that "constitutional rights" simply don't apply here. Since that is the entire basis of the thread / discussion, that basically means the discussion is dead as far as I'm concerned. Anything beyond it is simply beating a dead horse. ...Unless we have a dissenting opinion to the OP I guess, in which case we're bullies and big meanies. It's long been established, and repeated numerous times by numerous staff (contrib team is not staff, fyi) that if you have issues with an individual, you take it to PM and Krysyy. If you have issues with EMC as an entity, or some larger conflict, forum discussion is fine as far as I'm aware. BUT what this thread is asking for just doesn't apply, full stop, end of story.
I would like the whole community to suggest ideas that could be added to this non-mandatory suggestion of reafirming the rights of EMC members. Any suggestions? I feel like there is still much to disscuss.
A friend has also informed me of the fact that since Starlis. LLC is a privately own company that own EMC and therefore is obligated to operate under the Consumer Protection Laws since it is based in the United states od America. This includes... Right to be Heard - the right of consumers to have their complaints heard. Right to Redress - consumers have the right to seek redress regarding their complaints. Right to Consumer Education - the right of consumers to be educated about their rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_protection
On one side it would be good to first ask Aikar to state his vision regarding the EMC community and members' rights - not just as service users but as members of the community. On the other side, perhaps you can try to gather a group of interested members. This kind of work is best done in a small group of 3-5 people and then discussed and refined in a larger group / with the whole community. I'd help as far as I have time and energy for this.
Well I am sure the Community will greatly benfit from anyone who would like to share their constructive improvements and amendments to the suggestion of reafirming the rights of EMC members.
Perhaps we could all agree on a way we could speak our opinion and still get along as a community? Opinions are not meant to tear us apart there meant to show our perspectives
other than the trouble makers *hi cory* very few people are "censored" at all by the staff in any way. If you want to make trouble then you will obviously encounter resistance. Otherwise, there is soooo much on the forums and in game that could be censored (and probably should) that isn't. I don't see where the problem is other than people that feel like they are right no matter what anyone else says. This social-contract is not something that would be beneficial to EMC in ANY WAY. It would only serve to cause strife within the community and a further rift between the players and the staff. Nothing is fundamentally wrong with EMC and the mediums we use to express ourselves within it. The rules are laid out very simply and thoroughly as they should be. that serves as your social contract. you go outside of the rules and you face consequences. There is a handful of people that make this an issue now and then and they are almost always the ones that others look on as trouble makers. I'm sorry but troublemakers attempting to force the devs into a contract via protest, without presenting clearly what it is that is actually being aimed to achieve in what appears to boil down to a flame war on staff... no im sorry no. The thread will die but til then I guess I can watch.
I agree I ask from this point forward, that all opinions shall be allowed to be epressed only for the sake of an argument. No negative or disparaging comments should be made. We are all in this together so I think we should work togetherto create a comprehensive proposal.
I would like to ask the Gawardrolt, to find any post supported by me on the entire existence of the EMC thread about any type of Consumer right law violation. This is my first time bringing up this issue. I also, respectfully, decline to acknowledge your name-calling of us being trouble makers. We simply want security that it all, which is the opposite of trouble. You cannot apply your experience to everyone. I ask that you see why we began this discussion in the first place. We began this to bring attention to the fact of the notorious "drop it" response and that numerous times I've seen players mock and intimidate those who would ask staff for redress of certain discussion. Our Community will be better if we work together. Yes it is a privilege to have called EMC my home for 4+ years but I've also seen some clear violations of the consumer rights laws. I'm not asking for retribution which could cause more trouble. I'm simply suggesting we put forward a bill of right for EMC members so that certain things not covered by the terms of service are protected. Or maybe even an expansion of terms of service are necessary. Thank you very much for your participation in this discussion.
I didn't say YOU, I said a handful of people. Just because you decided to join that group now instead of later(or earlier) makes little difference to me. Take care to step back and think about who it is you are allying with and who it is you are attacking. Again, this doesn't help the community. the only thing it does is tear it apart. What you are REALLY calling for already exists, its called TOS and the rules. what you are going on about though is that staff does wrong and needs to be held accountable and in that you want aikar to enter into some agreement. The only people this would help is those that seek to either impose their ill thought out motives/opinions or actions on others with milder consequence or no consequence. logically it makes no sense and is unnecessary as we already have exactly what is being suggested just not in a form that says "do or say whatever you want"
I understand we all have rights and I'm sorry that you and others feel on EMC that your rights are not protected as such or do not feel that you are able to speak freely and your opinions heard, address grievances or protest. You will not be banned for simply speaking up for what you believe is right, the staff don't stoop that low. UNLESS It's something completely and utterly inappropriate for this server. On EMC we are quite fortunate compared to some other servers, we can suggest new ideas and we can hold debates and voice our opinions, provided the conversation stays family friendly! I believe this is why so many other controversial topics have been closed due to it's unfriendly nature. Your right to speak and to be heard has not been taken away from you, you've broken one of EMC's rules if your thread has been locked because it was seen as "too controversial", "inappropriate" or "not family friendly". You must understand there are minors on this server and Empire Minecraft is a family friendly place for all to enjoy. Some topics are simply not appropriate for the younger people to be partaking in or witnessing at their age. Maybe in the future an adult's forum could be implemented for those who would like to partake in topics that would otherwise be considered inappropriate in the standard community discussions. Yet even then, I do not see the reason to condone argument in any form on this server. This is Minecraft, a game. Why must we protest or speak our opinions on topics that don't even apply to anything Minecraft related? It just causes more tension between players on our server. I originally joined EMC so I could get away from all the argument and debate from the outside world, because..who would argue on Minecraft? I thought. Boy was I wrong. When I come log onto the forums I want to see something funny being posted, or something engaging like a good forum game, not an argument. And lately, I've been seeing a lot of those. On EMC we are equals and no one should be treated differently because of their ethnicity, age, gender, sexuality, orientation or religion. We are not to expose young people with foul language or prejudice remarks on our server. We see everyone as equals and that is that. If you cannot accept this, then leave. To a certain extent, yes we are allowed to speak freely on this server. But of course there's always that fine line. We all have rights and I believe on EMC we should all be heard, be able to voice our opinions and protest but that does not mean we should use those rights to speak about topics completely off related to the game we all play. We are considerably lucky with everything staff allow us to do and make allowances for, they do not take away our rights to speak freely, protest, or address grievances.. in fact, staff encourage you to report and speak up about any issues or queries you may have with the server. Their job as a staff member on EMC is to ensure that you feel safe, happy, sort out any issues you may have and make sure your experience on the empire is enjoyable. So for standing up, I applaud you for that. However some advice.. you come off as quite aggressive and overly demanding in your post, it wouldn't hurt to change some of the wording you use. That way, you'd also have more of a chance of a member of the staff responding to you. (Oh my God I'm sorry... I'm pretty sure I went completely off topic there )
I like two things in this statement - it says that there have been cases of "censorship" on EMC - and that there were very few. I fully agree with the first, while for the second I hope that it is true, just I don't know how to measure if it is "very few" or only "few". I don't think it's so important who was subject of censorship - it is much more important what it was. The problem is visible mostly when EMC members criticize EMC staff or actions of the EMC staff in a negative way. The EMC Staff perhaps feels attacked by being criticized in the open before the community. This is unpleasant for the staff and perhaps they also fear that negative criticism in the public might drive members away and that they would be responsible for that. A natural reaction is to try to silence criticism. It is the apparent cheapest way to use force to silence it - e.g. by locking or hiding threads, and additionally to that, in a more or less subtle way try to prevent negative criticism in public by e.g. comparing critics with trouble makers / drama makers and letting them know that they shall fear punishment. The quite obvious (I hope) better option is to answer the criticism, to address it with sufficient detail. B this requires far more time and energy. I hope that threads like this can encourage everyone to both try to express criticism, as far as possible in a positive and constructive way and on the other side to see that the effort invested in properly answering critics is not wasted time and energy, but a wise investment. We all (should) know that you can not expect to gain high value from cheap actions. I see several obvious, before all that the members will have it white on black what it is owners intention and vision regarding the community. IMO this has a very high value and is more or less a must for almost any contemporary business, especially when there is a community involved. I'm quite surprised with this opinion, because when you have it written down, than the potential for misunderstanding is lower. Without having it written down, everyone assumes and conflicts are programmed. This is only one side. The other is missing almost completely. It depends on what you mean by "trouble makers". If you mean people that break the rules or try to go around the rules, then IMO it is very dangerous to (try to) draw equal sign between social criticism and criminal. If by "trouble makers" you mean people who are trouble for the Staff because they criticize their decisions and actions in public, than, well, isn't that a very natural and human / social situation?
Such threads where people criticize staff and their actions have come up several times since I have been playing. Staff, from what I have seen, ALWAYS reply to them at some point. Of those replies I have yet to see staff say, lets not talk about that. By trouble makers I mean people that either 1. break the rules. 2. push the rules to an extent that it becomes a hassle to either players or staff. 3. like to bring up arguments or rehash arguments with no intent other than to disturb the peace. If you want to say there is one side of the whole social contract deal, draw a circle, there is your inside and outside. the rules are the circle. if you want the "not rules" to be the inside of the circle then you can do anything but what is inside of that circle. the other side is everything else. Writing down what is proposed wouldn't help clear up what is already clear, the rules. the only place the rules are vague is where it is by intent to leave room for things that could obviously fall in a grey area. Writing down a bill of rights only leaves it open to interpretation and then provides an outlet for someone breaking the rules to try and twist into their favor. if you aren't breaking the rules and have no intent to break the rules then there is no problem
When you don't have the right to openly debate the direction of this server, we lose our ability to course correct. I for one have seen some staff tell some individuals to drop issues or ideas that would've otherwise helped EMC grow instead. Instead EMC is stagnant, we have no future vote competition, we aren't doing anything to keep old members on EMC, in fact we push them away. We have a very low retention rate for new members. Finally, staff should be continued to be kept to a high standard of preparedness. These are issues that if discussed get labeled as "causing drama" and get shut down instantly. EMC is not accountable to absolutely anything the community comes up with. I feel like that is one of the reasons why we need the reiteration and documentation of free speech, protest, and addressing grievances from the EMC administration. This is why.... Please understand.
