Another Chance on the Empire

Yes, Rob, I am indeed hinting I am a female with eye problems.
Nice suit, by the way, I don't recall you having that when you were last around.

I broke my word. Sigh.

Cool!
Then tell it to me again.

Did you even read my other reasons?

You're

Make a thread lol.

Hmmmm not to happy that some people will get unbanned about half of them have greifed or advertised.
Though Im happy some people get another chance..............

Our staff will be careful about who they let back on.

: D

I am pretty sure the staff knows what they are doing. They aren't going to nessiarly let some griefed come back to the server after his second chance, they do a staff vote then they do regular appeal process. If the person still is lying and does bad stuff again I don't know what to think. (Even if this was the case, this most liekly wouldn't even happen because the staff would probably reject the griefer from a third chance.)

EMC Staff have been doing this for years, I think they knows what's best for us. This is a legitimately pick, not favoritism.

Yes yes indeed

Hopefully i can clarify things a little.

Tempbans are seen by the SYSTEM as an ever decreasing timer as to when a player can return to the game servers.
Permabans are seen by the SYSTEM as a permanent lockout, which is neither increasing or decreasing unless acted on by staff.
What this means it that permabans are considered permanent by the SYSTEM, but this does not mean they cannot be overturned by staff if truly worthy of another chance.

The 'Second Chance' policy was introduced to allow for permabanned players to appeal to the responsible staff member if they believe another chance is warranted.

The 'Another Chance' policy has been introduced to allow long-time and/or multiple permabanned players to contact Admin to have their appeal decided by a majority staff vote. You can rest assured that all views are explored in this vote, as staff have the freedom to fully express their thoughts, as well as deeply investigate and discuss before voting.

This is something which the community really needs to understand (not implying that you don't.)
Just because a staff member is demoted or retired does not mean every decision they made as staff should be seen as suspect. If a player feels their account has been unfairly banned by a former staff member then by all means bring it to the attention of Admin/Community Manager, but don't expect preferential treatment or a reversed decision simply based on the fact your ban was by a former staff member.

Prior to the 'Another Chance' policy many of these players were site-banned, which prevented them from logging in/posting on the forums. The reason for their increased activity is because they have appealed to Admin to have their site-bans lifted to allow for their appeal to take place. Also, just because their site-bans have been lifted does not mean their game-ban is influenced at all.

I honestly feel like you guys are giving off a vibe that unbanning permabanned players are not 'for the players' but 'for the name of the server'...

Some of the more-recent permanently permabanned players were decided upon by staff to never be unbanned ... and I feel like those decisions should be respected ...

Going back on the idea of 'second chance' being the last time you can mess up ... and then saying 'hey ... maybe we'll not look at people doing bad ... we'll just give them another chance' That's not always the best thing to do...

I mean, yes, as a person we should learn to forgive people ... but the idea that you are doing this is looking like desperation.

Not to mention all of the staff were hard-nosed about forgiving anyone in the past about what they did ... and now out of no-where you all are like 'hey, we need more players ... let us let the banned players back' ... those players were banned for a reason in the past... staff were banned for a reason in the past... i was banned for a reason in the past

Consequences should be instilled and that is what they were 'consequences' for slipping up on emc was to be permanently banned ... now saying perm bans do not even mean permanent is like you all were lying to us when we were to only receive second chances, and to purge people on things that weren't even that bad ... and now people that did worse things are let off easier than the ones who were banned for formerly minor things...

If anything this makes emc look worse than better by saying out loud 'We unban banned players' ... new players will begin to think 'Um... if they do something bad, shouldn't they stay banned?' ...and the answer should be 'yes' ....

I don't even feel like a member on here anymore .... build teams, staff demotions, staff promotions, allowing perma banned players to be unbanned... allowing people on stage when in the past I asked to help out building something and was told 'no non-staff member will ever be allowed on stage' ... this trust is beginning to be broken, old rules are being changed ... and to be honest I don't even know 'who' I can trust anymore ...

I think one of the main things mentioned a few pages back, that people are beginning to miss is the whole "Some players were unfairly banned" bit. Do they not deserve another chance? Everyone just keeps tossing them under the bus while being so afraid everyone and their grandmother who actually broke the rules will be let back on.

Instead of thinking of it as a lie why not realize that things CAN change and do? Maybe in the past staff wanted people to help with things but for some reason it just couldn't be done. Everyone moaned and begged there wasn't enough community interaction. Instead of thinking negatively, think about how there are now more chances for community interaction and helping out on the server.

I really don't wish emc to fall down...

I know some players, staff, and former staff will never respect some of the decisions made recently ... and I know that some people are moving on ....

But for the future community to be its best... if you guys want to see positive progress and not just have new people join, see the crap that has been happening, and turn around and re-leave ... or feel like some things shouldn't take place here .... then looking like desperation is taking place puts off a bad vibe ...

I can tell people's intentions just by how they type, how they speak, how they look, how they respond to certain situations .... and all these things being released and said in the past week or two ... are really just beginning to feel like they are desperation, instead of features and group projects.

That's not to say they aren't needed ... or they aren't welcomed 'by' the community ....

But if you really think about it ... the question to ask is:

is 'this' being released because the community wants it

or is 'this' being released to help keep the empire name standing

-I might be moving on, finish graduating, owning a company....and anything else I desire in my life, however I never seek the intention to see empire go to waste after such a long rein ... nor is it anyone else's intention.

This is part the part of the whole thread that bothers me. Yes, some people were occasionally banned due to misinformation. The problem then becomes, not everyone has access to the same resources as those who made the original ban.

What do I mean by that? Well, a long time ago, there was no Square. A shorter time ago, Square didn't log things that it does now. Reports didn't always exist, some people were banned because a staff member just saw them do something. I for one banned someone who stole my chest—just an empty chest—literally seconds after I placed it, then tried to ransom it to me when I asked for it back. There is no record of that, aside from the ban message. That was back when we were allowed to screw around with ban messages, too.

The obvious counterargument then becomes

which implies something else entirely. It implies that the previous staff did not know what they were doing when they banned these players in the first place. I recall R0bbieJo putting a note on someone's Square Profile where she said that player had received too many chances and should never be unbanned (before you get all leery on me, this guy never used the forums.) By unbanning this player, one is essentially undermining the decisions (because things like that were discussed in IRC and whatnot) of every active staff member at the time.

Something like that, immediately following the "mass exodus" of staff members from the staff team? It comes across as "all those people I hate are gone, now I can unban the people who I like." Is this every case? No. It's a matter of juxtaposition. It was timed poorly. Now, everyone who initially supported the stricter ban policy has been demoted or is inactive. Maybe one exception. Is there a better time to allow previously sitebanned players a return to EMC? Everyone who supported finality is gone, after all.

I don't have a say in this, and nobody has any reason to care about anything I ramble about.

tl;dr: Some people were sitebanned who perhaps shouldn't have been. While many of the people responsible for banning them no longer hold any authority, they do have access to information that others might not. Circumstantial things, the kind of things that you couldn't notice without cross-referencing a couple dozen threads across a few months.

I was trying to explain why instead of thinking in a negative light and be upset that you don't get to do everything, you should look at the positives and how there may be other reasons and how there are now going to be more ways to help EMC, that the community is now actually going to be able to help do things that they have wanted for so long. Nobody wants that, I don't want that, that's why I am still here trying to help and explain things to people, to make them see that there are positives to the negatives, to interact with the community. If I didn't want to be here to help/see EMC continue I'd have left long ago. Things change and sometimes you may not see why they changed the way they did or it may not seem right at first but there's a reason.

None of you probably remember me but I appealed as well. It's been nearly a year since i'v been on. Just hit the two year member mark recently.

Welcome back to EMC! Congratulations on two years!

Well, there is the potential that this staff member has a good point. I'm going to use an inverted example, but the theory is the same. Say, you're voting on nfell2009, and the majority of staff say to keep him banned. But one staff member believes he has changed for the better or that he will be able to behave himself now. Just because he was banned a few times, doesn't necessarily mean he should stay banned. And people have said this before, but I'll get back to that.

I'm not trying to make any personalised attack here, but I am going to say, I think that a vote on him would probably be slightly biased or conscience based, just on the fact that he has a different sense of humour or whatever you'd like to call it. For some of his bans, he certainly learnt not to do that again.

The point I'm trying to make is that I hope the vote is not just prejudice and conscience based, and that there is some form of process used to gauge whether a banned user should be unbanned. That one staff member who votes in favour of unbanning this player, may have a legitimate and fair reason, and the staff voting against, may just be voting so because they don't like the person.