Meh. We aren't getting anywhere. I suppose I'll have to take this. Is the opposite also true, by the way? If you get banned on the forums, will you get ip banned in-game?
All IP bans are forum bans, but not all forum bans are IP bans. Like I said, it takes far more than a slip up in the rules to earn an IP ban. Just checked and we only have 167 IP bans dating back to the generation of Square itself. And that's including a lot of multiple IPs for some players when they tried to bypass the IP lock.
Don't make me laugh, that's exactly how it is. You are denying access to something which someone knew they could access/will be able to access for no reason what so-ever other than "I want this, I don't care if the people it affects don't"
So what you're saying is that some of the people already IP-banned wouldn't have broken the rules if they knew at the time that the punishment would also include a forum-ban? I think that perfectly expresses what it means to have a complete disrespect for the rules. You don't choose to follow a rule or not based on what the punishment's gonna be. That means you don't care about the rule itself. If you actually respected the rules, you wouldn't even bother learning the punishments.
It has absolutely nothing to do with temporary bans, and if anything, that argument is the exact opposite of what we have put in place and continue to enforce. We believe that everyone makes mistakes. We believe that they deserve the chance to redeem themselves for their actions. These days a permanent ban (round 1) is in place until the player has the humility to admit that what they did was wrong and say that they won't do it again. Default seems to be a good 6 months, unless staff deems otherwise. It's very simple. We give them a second chance and they get to prove their promise either as truth or as a lie. Permanent bans are more like long temporary bans, with requirements to return. An IP ban is used in extreme cases when a player shows the inability to change and continues to be disruptive to the health of our community. These players have been given their chances and they blew them due to no one's fault, but their own. They may have appealed and showed the inability to simply admit that they broke the rules or prove the way that they have changed and can now be trusted with the elusive third chance (or higher). If you receive an IP ban, you don't get to stroll in and parade around our community and disrupt our conversations because you aren't going to ever log in and be an EMC player until you manage a successful appeal. If you don't plan on appealing and you've been banned, then why are you still giving your opinion on something that doesn't concern you? I know this is an upsetting change for those of your with friends that are IP banned. Please remember that they dug their own graves on this server and perhaps the time spent completely away will modify their attitude to where they could manage to prove to us one day that they have changed and can follow the rules.
I understand what the meaning of "IP ban" is, it's been thrown in my face a few times. What you need to understand is not all IP bans hurt the community, some of them only hurt 1 or 2 people. If such an IP banned player causes trouble int he forums, there should be no doubt about that the issue of them being banned on the forums shall be brought up. This new policy that you have introduced doesn't give IP banned players a chance to redeem themselves, even though some of them are genuinely regretting what they did, you just don't seem to care if they actually feel bad. A ban should stop a player from breaking the rule they broke before, say someone hacked on EMC/some other EMC server, and an IP ban is placed, and I know that it does it some cases. Why be banned on the forums, what have they done to deserve being removed from the forums?
Repeatedly broke the rules and/or shown disregard for them. They can't let it continue with no consequences or they might as well get rid of the rules.
i think what some folks may be getting at (and correct me if im wrong) is that they think this further punishment should be on a case by case basis. yes an ip ban is rather final, but not all ip banned players abuse anything at all about the forums. some might just submit artwork to the misc threads, or comment in the show yourself once a year. those people arent by their nature being disruptive. someone coming on and posting suggestions for a server they can no longer play on however would be seen as that. krysyy can you honestly say that all 167 of those ip banned players have caused a forum disruption? if not then i think the retroactive part needs to be examined more carefully.
I'll word that better. Before this thread was posted it was like half of the site access was taken away when it should ALL be revoked if the 'crime' is severe enough. Server + Forums should be as 1 in these instances not separate. If you will not be allowed to return in game, what's the point of being on the forums? There are still ways to talk to friends.
Yup! I understand you don't agree with that? Perhaps I'll learn respecting rules someday. I'm not sure. But at this moment in time I'm happy with not listening to rules for the sake of them being rules. (note: please don't interpret this wrongly: I mean rules being rules isn't a reason for me following them, I do not at all mean I disregard rules because they are rules)
I did run the list through some analysis and the majority of them are already banned on the forums because they eventually caused issues, and some of them being major ones. Once a player receives an IP ban, they aren't inclined to show respect on the forums or even try to change. IP bans are not taken lightly. This policy change encourages the player to take the time away from EMC that is needed in order to actually come back and respect that their ability to be a player on our server is a privilege that they must earn. If they are still IP banned, then they haven't changed. Most members that hang around the forums to offer their negativity towards server features aren't doing anything but being disruptive. The few that you see still around after an IP ban think that they are harmless, but we've seen plenty of examples that show that they really aren't. Their snide comments during updates, or constant reminders that they are still around after being banned, completely go against what a ban is supposed to be. I've had players come to me and ask why they are still allowed to be here on their banned accounts if they aren't allowed to go in game. I've had at least one player come forward and tell me that they were glad for a certain change, but didn't want to publicly state their approval because they'd be shamed by a banned player and their friends for taking staff's side in the matter. The community has allowed the banned players to intimidate the current players that follow the rules. That's just wrong and it was time that we put a stop to it.
At the moment I don't think I quite get it, but you're probably right, and if you aren't, you're trying really hard to be so, so have a like!
