[POLL] What upcoming feature do you desire more?

Ok I think there are a few players out there that interpreted my economic comment wrongly. I didn't mean that TPing will ruin the economy completely, I simply meant that it will adversely affect certain items. Let me break it down:

Farmed crops and animals - not affected
Trees / Logs - partially affected (due to res sizes in town, many tree farms are in the wild)
Basic blocks - not affected (cobble, stone, etc that can be created in town)
Other blocks - partially affected (sand, clay etc)
Hostile mob drops - greatly affected

Of course the Tping argument is a moot point for those with farms a few minutes away from spawn. But many players choose to play it safe and go deep into the wild. Here's an example of what may happen (this is only hypothetical):

I own a bone/arrow farm 15k out. Even with my nether rail, it takes long enough to move a couple inventories of product that it makes me not want to do all those logistics often, thus keeping me from moving a ton. Yes, bones aren't a big money maker (1 - 2r each) and that only helps perpetuate my laziness. Now, after a while of owning the farm, the items are piling up. Currently I have 45 DC of bones (not to mention arrows). I've been meaning to move them to town but just never got around to it. BOOM! All of a sudden I can teleport! Now I start bringing ALL my items to town so that I can clear out the farm once and for all and not sit on a ton of stuff. All of a sudden there are 45 DC of bones instantly added to the economy. Now many people say that lowering commodity pricing and increasing supply doesn't damage the economy...but let's see....
This situation most benefits the new players who want the lowest possible pricing to get their beginner materials. On the flip side....all the shops start lowering prices of bones. Either the owners start making less money per bone or they even start losing money if they are into reselling and have any inventory during this price drop era. Ok, not a huge deal but....there's a trickle effect. Bones themselves are used for many things, but mostly for crop/tree growth. Cheaper bones = cheaper to speed growing trees. In turn that can slightly or greatly reduce the cost of logs. In turn, reducing slightly the cost of all wooden goods.

I'm sorry the explanation above is a tad long winded, but I wanted to prove a point. At first glance, TPing is great and has no adverse affect. BUT....in reality it will have many long term implications that may be hard to see at first. With a long established server like ours, having a strong established economy, any sudden variations in product pricing can and will have an effect on everyone, be it good or bad.

This will be the last time I'm bringing this up so I hope Aikar takes it into consideration more than he has already. Seeing how sooooo many players are for TPing all I can say is....I'm sure gonna miss the nostalgia of a long train ride

The whole description against having teleporting openly available to town from your outpost is: Yes as Aikar described it does bring balances to those who are too far out to even consider hiking back, but then on other hand we've got people's outposts that are just convenient the way they are.

Since we're throwing out opinions here - I disagree with teleporting to a certain degree as well and let me share why! Y'all see a rise or a fall in the trade market but the fact still stands firmly that items are only as valuable as the effort it takes to get it, rarity is out of the question these days as everything regular MC related (not promos and such) are so easy to get.

Now my reasoning for the teleporting downside - It truly just makes us work less and than even less. If you're able to claim an outpost far out with abundant resources and tp it all back up to town with minimal work, the only thing you'd have to do is wait for the right timing just as you normally would to let the market do your bidding. Yes time and effort go into the op and I see that, but I am kinda thrown off by how the Teleportation System will balance how people use the economy side of town. I for one am not extremely active in the market, I will occasionally sell and buy from people I know just for the sake of helping, so when I say I'm concerned it's really for them rather than myself.

But Idk, I've just seen how instant teleporting on other servers crashed their economy-side over time because there was no balance to counteract it, I just hope EMC has a clear perspective on this.

First of all: I totally agree, I think it's not even speculation but simply something which is bound to happen one way or the other. Although not directly related but just look at the Momentus and Marlix drops. The spawn rate have been increased quite heavily and because of that their loot drops are more commonly available. I've even seen auctions for 15 or so vault vouchers, something which was somewhat unique but not that hard to accomplish (I have 13 in storage at the time of writing). Hmm, or 2 or 3 Momentus toothpicks quite shortly after another. If the first auction is too high for you, just jump onto the second!

The thing is: would that really be a bad thing?

A healthy economy is something which is always in motion, new developments happen from time to time which make older investments useless and opens room for new ones.

And quite frankly I'm not worried, not at all. I'm on SMP2 which has some pretty big malls available. /v +poof, /v +ssrc and 3800 come to mind. If you need something then chances are high that those 3 will do it for you.

Yet I still manage to sell my goods on a regular basis in my "attic shop". Even when I'm not online.

I think tp will have some effect on the economy. There are people with very large, efficient farms out in the frontier, they may share them publicly and they may bring a lot of items back to town to sell.

I don't see it as a bad thing, it's just what happens when you connect with the wildlings. The fact these areas had to be hidden to prevent grief this whole time to me feels like a glitch we're fixing rather than a new area we're adding. It's amazing seeing how people build on small whitelist servers, valuable blocks everywhere, beautiful farms for all to share, close to spawn... We're just fixing it so those things are possible again on our large server.

you all seem to think this is an economy server...lol

Wow! This thread is still going on! I think I should be happy I didn't get alerts from it

So do we have a decision yet Aikar? Just curious, haven't heard much from this thread in a while. No rush.

Land claiming is the most important. Without it I will never lose my time rising anything in the Frontier. The risks of being griefed and the explosions of creepers destroying everything are things that take away all the motivation to build an empire or a simple town out there. You spend time building and decorating, so you need to know you can go to sleep and all your stuff will be right there when you come back to play.

As Zarembo1 wrote, people do have DCs upon DCs of stuff far in the frontier, and yes, the transport is quite a challenge at this time. While it is possible to transport a dozen of DCs in one run, recently there have been quite some problems with strange behavior of trains and even lost carts.

This teleporting would be limited though - my first thought is that it shouldn't have much more long lasting effects than easy access to Wastelands does.

I see it as possible that it could significantly change some of the prices for some time, create deflation that could last for months if not a year, but of course, after that, the balance would eventually get restored.

Do you think that this TPing to frontier outposts and back might have lasting effects beyond that?
What did happen to that servers economy-wise in the long run?

I know of several farms that have dcs uponndcs sitting much closer than hours or even one hour away from town. The reason those items sit there is not because the transport would've arduous but in vain. You can bring 100 dcs of gold blocks to town but its still going to take you the same amount of time to sell it, whether it was here or there. There is giant caches of materials IN TOWN so teleporting might create a short lived illusion of abundance but there is no shortage of supply as is and teleporting isn't going to change that.

It may be an extreme example, but that other server I speak of had issues like 25%- 75% deflation in prices, that ended up being permanent. This made it so that new players trying to sell items were forced to do so at very low rates, while the established players who already had tons of money could afford anything and in turn had much more economic power. Not that a system like that won't work, it's just a pain for the little people. I doubt that TPing here will create such an extreme result, but there will be consequences we may not see.....

I just can't believe so many people WANT tping and DON'T WANT shops in the wild....bummer

It has been dormant for over a year...

@M4nic_M1ner

I do favor the thoughts of there being a change no matter how small or big in shops, because most changes I've seen have something really good come of them in time - Yes maybe not all items will be affected by this, but some will definitely show some significance to a certain downfall in prices making those materials slow down in their overall influence on shops and player's income.

So try to think of it this way: You got someone selling their stock in diamond vs. someone who is selling something simpler like say Stonebricks. Even after this Teleporting Update comes into play, the player selling diamond will have little to not much of a change unless people try to flood the market while our guy making his earnings by simple bricks hits a downfall.
Simply because if you have an outpost far out enough, you have no need to worry about your fully powered beacons being stolen (I still lock mine) therefore you can gather loads of stone in easily an hour which in turn you make more money off of by crafting bricks. However with Teleporting on that note, you can guarantee to see more being sold and more stuff like that being auctioned on a larger scale causing noticeable deflation in sales.

Restoring the deflation - I can see that, I mean everything still requires effort just a bit less. This also may hit some player harder than others since some only make their income from easy-to-get materials. So like anything it will take time for some to adjust I suppose.
And lastly to answer you, in the long run some servers with minimal (smaller) communities couldn't get a break and they ran into the ground to say the least. On the other hand, some restored the original features though some damage was done of course. With the mixture of the community here, in and outside of the
economy-features I see it strengthening undoubtedly sooner or later.

But like I said before " I hope the system stays balanced" .

Lol yes

Land claiming

You know why the banks of countries keep inflation going? It's far easier to control than deflation. Deflation is horrific. Once people see prices fall, they all start betting that next week it'll even be cheaper, so it just turns into a big snowball until everything is practically worthless (anyone remember 2008? lots of short sellers came on the stock market and made it go further down). Not much a central bank can do to stop deflation. If an interest rate cut doesn't stop it, nothing will. If you're near zero in interest rates, you're screwed. Same thing can happen here, and it usually will end up with no shops in stock cause everyone just buys anything real cheap for the fun of it. Economy no mas.

Inflation on the other hand is easier to control. One can raise interest rates to make money more expensive, cooling investment risk taking, which makes less jobs available, which makes demand for services and products lower, effectively cooling off the inflation one was trying to control (or on emc spawn in unlimited materials to kill off businesses that are trying to corner markets). Or one can do the bond buying program that world banks have been doing to increase inflation. Anyway, there are more tools to control inflation. Less with deflation.

A lot of that is completely irrelevant to EMC though as the rule(which should exist everywhere irl) of no banks allowed. You can still invest in cornering a market if you wish but it will be in vain for the most part unless you are trying to just buy up all of one promo and decide you are going to destroy half of them lol. All other materials can be had from somewhere else. With rupees being constantly introduced into EMC's economy through voting rewards there isn't much of risk of a "global" deflation. Regardless of how much someone wants to try and push that narrative. If you come into town trying to deflate the price on something you have one future: being bought out by those of us that will not see you doing it. This upsets some people but they don't realize how they are working against themselves and the economy regardless of how many people shout "yay cheap stuff."

I ran into this problem very very shortly after 1.8 came out. thanks to the scarcity of the 1.8 blocks they were very overpriced. You could have probably flooded the market with those blocks for weeks or months without budging on the price much. There was a couple people I tried to buy out because they were intentionally driving the prices down. The EMC player base is made up of a lot of people that don't know much better though so upon seeing the lowered prices they expected thats what they would stay at and even though they couldn't actually get those blocks for that price most had made up their mind that that was the price. Of course forcing me to either lower my prices or take an even larger cut on my profits as the prices naturally dropped. I probably could have prevented the deflation for more than the couple days I did if I had more capital to play with but the damage had been done.

HOWEVER!! Those blocks were still in high demand so the prices didn't tank to nothing or become completely value-less. Yes they weren't as profitable but no one is going to farm or transport blocks(no matter what block that may be) that net them no income. The prices now are probably right around where they should be except for dark prismarine which is becoming underpriced in my opinion only because black dye is overpriced. The demand for it has dropped quite a bit in the past month as well so it's not just the problem of the black dye being overpriced.

As far as the stone argument. Being that you can get stone in mass quantities and ship it to town. Stone really isn't profitable as is so if you did that nearly no one would care. It's practically value-less as is and the only reason its stocked anywhere is just so people can say they have it. Sure you can go out and waste time getting a bunch and bring it back to town but if anything you are losing money on your time so it's best to just buy in bulk in town and throw it in your shop/mall. There will always be blocks/products like this in every economy. Another one: dirt. Dirt isn't like that on all servers but thanks to our town res and the way its set up dirt here is just as valuable as stone is. Even though people will actually pay for stone on EMC for some strange reason.

Tl;dr teleporting isn't going to effect the economy, it isn't going to budge it let alone cause mass deflation. If after teleporting is introduced there is ANY market shift at all its because of one thing: psychological influence due to the impressionable player base.

Just saying there's lots of similarities between central banks and empire shop

Wrote long post and deleted it.... emc shop and central banks are completely different and I am confused on what possible comparison could be made. I don't see EMC shop being a hinderance to deflation either. Perhaps it could be if emc shop bought materials at half of what is generally established as the "buy" price in shops. This would not only be interesting but would offer a no brained protection over hyper deflation suggestionforum here I come.

I'll get back to you tomorrow on that. Or later today actually XD