Note: The issue raised in this thread could also be sent by pm to staff. However, I prefer public discussion, as I would like to know how fellow EMC members feel on the matter, and if Krysyy or someone else does give a solid explanation, it would be nice if others could read it too, rather than just me (because I assume that I am not the only person who does feel this way. I might be mistaken, we'll see ). EMC has, in my opinion, great moderation, where players are allowed to discuss even sensitive topics (in the controversial section if necessary), and discussion is rarely cut off. When it is, it often seems a good call (at least in hindsight, not always in the heat of the moment), to prevent unnecessary drama. However, now and then it seems like threads are closed for no apparent reason. I have never kept track of these occurrences, but it actually happened more than once today, so I figured I should address this now, so I have at least a few examples. Take a look at this suggestion thread: https://empireminecraft.com/threads/suggestion-add-24-hour-clock-on-the-forums.82407/ People replied to the suggestion, and after some time Krysyy jumped in and worked it out. Great! But what I don't get is why she then closed the thread. People might've wanted to express their gratitude or happiness about the addition, comment on the way it was done, or maybe even briefly speculate on what other additions might be made. I can imagine that it could be confusing to have an already accepted suggestion still replied to, but that's why the title was updated, and that should be enough. Moreover, a day or two of extra comments probably won't confuse many (it might rather bring the new addition to the attention of more people more quickly), and it is unlikely that a thread like this would stay active for longer than that. Here's a thread that couldn't receive a single non-staff reply: https://empireminecraft.com/threads/smp1-town-spawn-doesnt-have-a-games-events-teleport.82424/ This thread was closed within 10 minutes, because the issue had been accounted for. Now, in this case I wouldn't know what people might have to add still to such a thread. But that does not mean people should be prevented from adding anything! If there's nothing to add, the thread won't receive any more posts. If there is, great, let it be added. Having a thread closed just like that feels like a door thrown in your face, to me. But now it gets really interesting. I did want to comment on the aforementioned suggestion thread, and as it was closed I figured I'd create my own thread: https://empireminecraft.com/threads/new-forum-language-24-clock-option-added.82423/ Two people even commented on the thread. ... but then it was closed. It's not needed... Well, I can follow that. If people are going to find out about the feature sooner or later anyway, discussing this addition further isn't going to help them much. But wait... not needed? Not needed for what? Do you realise that the whole forum games section is 'not needed'? Or the entire Empire Creativity category of subforums? If I'm getting this undefined notion of 'need' right, even the EMC Show Yourself thread is not needed. But this forum doesn't exist solely to support the Minecraft server. At least not anymore. I might be the most extreme player as far as forum usage goes, but there are several other well-known players that only play on the forum and not on the Minecraft server. There are several more well-known players that do play on the Minecraft server, and use the forum for coordinating buying and selling, providing services, bidding in or hosting of auctions, but that also participate in threads like Counting with Pictures, which is the longest thread on EMC but has nothing to do with Minecraft. It is totally not needed. My conclusion: a thread or further discussion not being needed (for functioning of the Minecraft server and forum, perhaps?) is no reason to close it. Threads should only be closed if it seems like discussion might get out of hand, or in rare cases where a very old and unrepresentative thread is revived and causing undesirable confusion. Threads should not be closed because further discussion is not needed. Because most things done on EMC are not needed. But there are clearly people who do enjoy doing them. What do you think?
....... ^ That's what I initially think. A more detailed answer: A suggestion was made and implemented so the thread didn't need to be left open because it was accepted. Additional suggestions can be made on additional threads. Other suggestions have been denied or accepted in similar fashion for a long time now. The second thread was shut down because it was superfluous and stating something that was already stated. "Not needed" in the sense that we don't need a separate forum post just to say what has already been said. There's nothing to be gained that a simple like of the post in the archives wouldn't achieve. Making a separate post just to say you like something simply spams the forums and all aspects were addressed. The post wasn't a 'what does the community think of it?' conversation event even. It was a 'hey, they did this' and the 'hey we did this' post already existed, therefore making the additional thread spam in nature. So we acknowledged it and there was no need for it. The thread about the games tp was shut down because it was posted in support and the support 'ticket' was handled and did not need additional input. I mean, the concept of this thread alone. Are you really trying to debate the concept that a thread was addressed and closed and we did our jobs on the forums?.....*goes for ice cream*
Yes. Enjoy the ice cream. Note that this thread was not prompted by you closing my thread. I mean, it was the reason to write it now, but not the reason to write it at all. As I said, this has happened now and then, and for a long time. Not only by you either; other senior staff members have done the same (no moderators that I can recall). I'll go for ice cream too.
I gotta agree with Krysyy on this one. Staff doesn't always have to explain why they close a certain thread. It may sound weird, but it is for a reason. They are simply doing their job. And I also agree that if a thread serves essentially no purpose ("not needed"), then it doesn't need to be a thread... It should just be closed.
Yes, it's been done for a long time because the threads that it happens to have no reason to remain open and fit into one of the types of categories mentioned: with the commonality being "we handled it". Conversations that have all little ties wrapped up end with a staff post and a cherry on top because sometimes that's all the players need to read. If we leave the threads open, it either: -gets off course into a topic that really should have had its own thread in the first place -has 2+ posts stating the exact same thing staff said for no reason -has someone asking the same question or asking for resolution two pages later and another post quoting staff's answer, followed by the player saying 'oh I didn't read that because it was on page 3 of 5'. -etc.... With the easy threads that can wrap up into nice little bows, we do so quickly whenever possible to get the info where it needs to be and in as efficient as a manner as it needs to be. Moderators really only do this with auction thread cleanup. SS+ tend to do this with more noticeable threads.
Idk, I feel like if it is a suggestion and it is answered, then go ahead and close it. But if it is posted as a discussion, leave it be. It isn't hurting anybody. There is a line between limiting too many threads about the same topic and just shutting down topic discussion. If there is nothing to be discussed about it, it will die and get buried. If there is, then that is good. The Empire needs activity and not allowing it is not a good direction to go.
Then I'd like to know what their job is, and maybe propose a change. But who determines whether a thread has purpose? If even the thread starter isn't deemed able... Why would a thread where you post pictures of yourself serve more purpose than a thread where you comment on a new feature? Quite possible. In that case, someone will probably point it out and discussion will either die down or someone will create an own thread for the matter. It might also be that the topic doesn't need its own thread, however, and is very related to the topic talked about. It seems most appropriate to post about it in the thread where it was brought up. So what? Yeah, that is a valid issue. I addressed it here. If the thread does somehow get whole new pages, and there is confusion, that is reason to close the thread. But I expect that would happen in less than 10% of the cases. Right, I can fill that in for you. Something striking* that I realised while eating my ice cream yesterday: Tom actually made a post on your profile thanking you for adding the 24 hour clock, and you pressed like on that post. Wouldn't that post be a lot more appropriate in the thread where the idea was suggested, accepted and implemented, instead of on the profile of the person who handled it? That word really doesn't sound great... I am disappointed that 'frappant' is not an English word. Something else I realised: I assume with 'post' you mean 'thread', here. In that case: yes, of course there would have been no need of a separate thread... if you'd just kept the already existing thread open. And in case it wasn't obvious: I disagree. At this moment, 12 people have a like on the final post in the suggestion thread. At least one of those (Tom) is very happy with the addition, and will be using it. Several others of those, however, probably don't care too much about the addition and just liked your post because you did something—which would also be something someone could post about!: the addition of something to Preferences in general. And if it wouldn't introduce big new ideas, it would not warrant a new thread in my opinion. In short, a like can mean many different things. On the other side, you can like a suggestion being implemented without liking the post. I mean, I have clearly demonstrated it. And you closing the thread with that post is not the only reason why one might want to not like it: other possibilities would include the fourfolds of periods, the sarcasm, the reference to the military, the capitalised 'WILL'. Sure, most of these are rather far-fetched (although I had no trouble inventing them...), but other such posts can have more significant reasons to not like a post, despite liking the deed. Consider a post Aikar might make, written in a hurry, incomplete and full of mistakes, but about a great addition or bug fix. I agree with the second paragraph(, of course). But you gave no reason for why a suggestion thread should be closed. Are Suggestions and Help & Support just areas of the forum with a totally different purpose and ruleset, similar to the Auction House? I could probably deal with that if I knew about it. But I don't see why they should be. And it does become an issue if it's also not allowed to make a thread in a different subforum related to a thread in Suggestions or Help & Support.
I've said my piece and the forums have been running this way for a long time now. You may want extra posts crowding up the threads. Others may not. We don't go closing every discussion, but when we deem the suggestion implemented/denied and it gets moved to the archives, it's auto-closed because the archives are locked. The support tickets handled get closed so that we know what is an outstanding issue that needs addressing. Probably need archives there too...that's what we do. We close it, put a big bow on top and call it a day. So we can keep the wheels moving.
doesn't this brake 1 of emc's rules Do not ask for other player's personal (IRL) details. The Empire is a place for players of all ages to play and feel safe. Always practice safe internet use practices. If someone asks you for your information, do not give it out. Report the action to a staff member immediately. https://empireminecraft.com/threads/official-emc-show-yourself-thread-2020-edition.81620/ im not trying anything im just wondering since people who ask for info are reported. doesn't that mean i need to report Krysyy? /report Krysyy and if so does this mean this rule would need to be changed?
Tad offtopic, but the show yourself thread is: 1) Optional 2) Doesn't disclose any details ideally. A pic is just a pic.
+1 this post^ ------ There are many threads out there on this website that serve almost no purpose, other than just to get people's attention. With that being said, it only takes 1 post to start a fight since the thread has no identity and no main topic to talk about to begin with. (I doubt anyone wants more fighting on the forums like what has happened before...?) Unpopular opinion, but I don't care: I'm also with Kryssy on this. (Also, the creation of pointless threads "could" potentially be considered spam, which is a violation of the rules... but that's just my 50 cents to this discussion.)
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I feel like your 24-hour clock thread was simply a duplicate and not really necessary to discuss in great detail. I could understand having duplicate discussions of the Survival update or a major forums overhaul, but for something that minor, the thread was really unnecessary. Again, like you mentioned, some of these threads may be completely unrelated/unnecessary to EMC, but the forums is its own community in a way. Maybe have some sort of large community thread where conversations about those types of things can continue as long as they want? Like a centralized, discussion thread?
Propose a change?? Staff have many jobs.... deleting useless threads is one of them. If a thread doesn't follow the criteria and rules, staff have full permission to delete it. ... The threads you mentioned have either already been answered/discussed or serve essentially no purpose, or are just duplicates of other threads. I don't get all the confusion... Like I mentioned before, staff can do what they want when they want.... they don't always have to have a reason for doing it. I honestly think this thread should be closed... since the answer is quite evident.
If I remember correctly, I had actually liked that post before the thread was closed. I was getting ready to reply with the thanks, but then it was already too late. The sole reason I liked that post was for implementing the feature, not for what it actually contained. --- An opinion I hold on this matter is that by closing threads "early", you can hold back possible other useful suggestions or input. I was going to suggest a small change in the 24 hour thread, but couldn't do so because the thread was already closed. Now, the obvious response to that is to either make another thread, or PM it to whoever seems fitting. The downside of that is that for me, and I assume for many others too, this is a big barrier to cross. Creating a thread means posing as the main creator of something that was partially already discussed in a closed thread. PMing "someone important who is always busy" is also quite daunting. For some, neither will matter, but for others it will. No matter how often it is said that you shouldn't be hesitant about doing these things, peoole will still be like this (and I'm one of them ). This is in the community discussion subforum though... so it's for discussion of whatever the first post asks about. The question asked in the first post is "What do you think?". There have only been 16 replies as of now, so there is plenty more room for more replies.
This sounds like a good reason. Thanks for explaining it. It confirms my idea that there is something special about Suggestions and Help & Support, I suppose. I would suggest not archiving the threads immediately, though, but letting a day or two pass. I can imagine this to create a lot more work on the staff's part, but it could be something to consider. I agree, there shouldn't have been two threads about that change. If the suggestion thread hadn't been closed, there wouldn't have been two. Yes, propose a change. The 'criteria and rules' for when to close a thread aren't secured in the constitution or something. Exactly. That is why I opened another thread about the matter. Indeed, I did not add much, but I thought there should be opportunity for others to do so, especially so soon after the feature's implementation.
If people feel the conversations within a thread is short ended and feel the need to express 'gratitude' for said idea then you have the power to update your own personal wall saying "blah blah blah Oh I really enjoyed the discussions about x y z in this thread maybe if anyone wants to continue it we can do so on my profile page." Krysyy had previously mentioned another way we could acknowledge our 'gratitude' for a thread topic as well which I feel is more than enough! =-= Simply put. If you do not like the way the EMC forums have been operated for years then go make an EMC reddit or something where you can invite players to post there instead. We should just be happy that EMC allows some random off topic discussions such as the topics in the controversial area or even the counting with pictures thread. Haha yep I agree! Discord is a pretty unfiltered area and I love reading some of the random discussions that occur there! I think the big issue with people who are frequent forums users is that they like to flex their extensive writing skills to the community. =-= So new suggestion maybe that I feel is relevant. Why not take the initiative (Talking to those frequent EMC forum users) and create an unofficial EMC sub reddit. Gives you lots of room to discuss, flex, and practice your debate skills outside of the EMC forums.
There doesn't need to be one does there? Sure, it might be nice... but I feel like it is kind of a given...
