The problems of Krysyy, Aikar and how EMC is run.

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by _REMOVED_87055, Oct 27, 2019.

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  1. Is there any way to have chicken come and explain it on a more technical level? It sounds like what you're telling me is that yes, our server is protected by concealment(that's a big nono) and that we have no way of making sub-modules out of the repository to expose certain portions of code that's hopefully well-documented enough that it's updatable in portions?
    Extendingskys, Oct 27, 2019
    #141
    Joy_the_Miner likes this.
  2. Copy and pasted:
    Far too late for this. But the code is just too sensitive to open up very far. If we could do it over again. I would think it cool to have it more open than it is. Similar to how EmpireCraft is open.
    Right now it is all or nothing access, causing us to be restrictive towards devs.
    Certain parts have to be private. Otherwise, people would spend their time finding exploits - instead of contributing.
    We have some really good code. But it isn't airtight. Guarantee there are exploits that are just waiting to be found.
    But for example, Games server could have had the potential to be community coded. Our code setup is just not setup for that though. Both the politics of quality assurance- and access to inject into other parts of the code.
    Krysyy, Oct 27, 2019
    #142
    607, __Devil_, Extendingskys and 1 other person like this.
  3. To my knowledge, paperMC is already updated to 1.14.4. I have been a silent spectator of the papermc discord for a long time now and my understanding is that it's considered stable and safe for 1.14 for a while now. If we still needed paper to be up to date for EMC, then I would be happy to help with that, but it seems to me that that's not the issue anymore. Also, it's difficult to know what is the issue, since there's zero transparency or updates on topics like this.
    Extendingskys, Oct 27, 2019
    #143
    607, FadedMartian and Joy_the_Miner like this.
  4. YES. That's how I believe it to be to.

    Edit: Per Aikar's post of "We have a team on the PaperMC project, and others simply picked up where I left off on fixing stuff. They are making good progress.", if that team were to be larger, I'd imagine greater progress. Personal opinion in this of course because I know nearly nothing about it.
    Krysyy, Oct 27, 2019
    #144
  5. When Aikar tried to fix it, it broke log-ins. So since logging in is more important, it got pushed to the back of the line. Finding all threads by a player is helpful, but not crucial is the thought process. Sorry if you missed the post in another thread where I mentioned the log-ins breaking.
    Krysyy, Oct 27, 2019
    #145
    4thOfJurhy likes this.
  6. I want this feature back as much as you do, but what Krysyy said

    she has indeed said before. Probably on the thread 607 had made on this issue. I'd find it, but.... yeah. :rolleyes: Having missed that statement is of course not weird at all.
    TomvanWijnen, Oct 27, 2019
    #146
    607, FadedMartian and Extendingskys like this.
  7. Based on what I know of PaperMC 1.14 and from what Aikar said earlier, it’s “stable enough” to use, but not necessarily enough for EMC.

    However, I think that some additional info from Aikar or Chicken could be beneficial here to explain what is or isn’t needed on the PaperMC side.
    JDHallows, Oct 27, 2019
    #147
    607, FadedMartian, KatydidBuild and 1 other person like this.
  8. If it comes down to an issue of code quality, then we should be running various vulnerability analysis tools on the code and server. There are so many out there which are extremely powerful and should provide sufficient security to allow us to at least expose parts of the code in sub-modules. I know many exploits are very specific to minecraft and couldn't be caught in this manner, though it's not like duping bugs or other issues haven't existed before, and we survived. But ones that allow server takedowns/takeovers should be caught by this.
    Edit:
    Welp, if that's the case then if we had any level of transparency then I would be more than happy to help target issues in Paper that are holding us up. But again, I have no idea what they need from us, and I'm not going to go chase down every paper issue hoping to find the right one because much like the devs, I have an outside life.
    Extendingskys, Oct 27, 2019
    #148
    607 and Joy_the_Miner like this.
  9. I sit here as I wait for the calm of the storm to pass...
    Otus_NigRum, Oct 27, 2019
    #149
    FadedMartian, ConductorConduit, Joy_the_Miner and 1 other person like this.
  10. Inbetrms of aikar post:
    Krysyy does not manage anything, she has almost no communication with the dtaff. I messaged her 3 times once about a ban appeal, over official staff chat and ingame and she failed to help me. SS didn't famcy helping either and a mod IN TRAINING helped me in the end, the bar is rock bottom.

    She also does not manage events, that is planned by the BT leader and she has no input until the end. She also cannot uodate the calendar competently.

    I'll leave devy stuff since there's already discussion about that but in terms of my paperclip anology, it came from an ex dev.

    Thank you for youe resonse though, it was interesting to hear your opinion.
    _REMOVED_87055, Oct 27, 2019
    #150
    FadedMartian, ConductorConduit, Joy_the_Miner and 2 others like this.
  11. Okay so this might get lost in the infinite rants but here I go.

    The whole sense of economy has been destroyed by the release of promos, so in my opinion try hosting more events that earn money over releasing promos. Promos have oversaturated the marketplace economy IMO we need to get rid of them all!

    Create a system where we convert our tokens into some purchasable items such as Quartz, Diamonds, wood etc...(Priced within reason as well)! That way we can have more items in the market. (The idea of getting our items from "mid-air" that way players who have literally hundreds of thousands can start using them....)

    We need a basic needs shop to kick start the economy!
    ***COUGH COUGH COUGH***
    All Wood Types (log form)
    Stone (not hard to obtain bulk amounts more optional)
    Cobblestone (Not hard to obtain bulk amounts more optional really)
    Gravel
    Sand
    (You can use for making concrete last 2)
    Brick blocks (Very hard to obtain large amounts)
    Terracotta (Dye it yourself)
    Quartz flakes (Lots of red stone items use this, plus building material)
    Redstone dust (Redstoners dream)
    Lapis (enchanting purposes and building)
    Glowstone(A light source block that is sometimes hard to obtain)
    Diamonds (#1 item in MC)
    Maybe some of the various mob drops including but not limited to
    Leather (Used for various crafted items)
    String ("")
    Gunpowder (Potions, TNT)
    Bones (Bonemeal bone blocks)

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    So in the response of what we can do from a non-server side code relation. We dont need a big fancy build for this shop. Heck put it on a single res like the OLD EMC SHOP and put some signs up!!!
    EquableHook, Oct 27, 2019
    #151
    FadedMartian, Burki and Tbird1128 like this.
  12. There's an entire thread of players saying quite the opposite recently. We can't keep everyone happy, but promos and events are usually mutually exclusive so I can address the events portion, and started with TNT run today.
    Krysyy, Oct 27, 2019
    #152
    PetezzaDawg, 607, FadedMartian and 1 other person like this.
  13. There's a large thread made about that issue a couple days ago, you should go check that out. Your points might be better suited there.
    edit; sniped by krysyy :V
    Extendingskys, Oct 27, 2019
    #153
    607 and FadedMartian like this.
  14. Wait this isnt a rant thread I only read up to page 2 on the event side of things =p
    EquableHook, Oct 27, 2019
    #154
  15. Well... Actually, I think I can. Just not in the desired time frame. As mentioned here, a lot of the concerning bits have been resolved now (upstream from Paper). Still not 100% though. If I had to explain where we are - I would say close to extensive testing. Meaning that there are a couple of pieces I need to fix still as they would distract from the fine details needing to be noticed during testing.


    In addition to what Krysyy quoted me on. I want to stress that I honestly think it would be awesome to have the community contribute directly to our code base. Currently it is all integrated together do there is no good way to delineate between a general feature and sensitive code. No way to split it up without significant work.

    Truthfully, there is not just a chance of an exploit being discovered. I know there are potential exploits just waiting to be found. Most everyone would not use access for that purpose - but it only takes one bad Apple... There have been plenty bad apples in EMC's history. In fact, in just the past couple months we had to work against a notable someone who discovered a dupe exploit on EMC. Naturally they would not tell us how they were doing it, coming back on new accounts repeatedly to get re banned. We patched it quietly and spent plenty of time containing the duped items.

    My point being. There is a big difference between giving public access to code for firefloor (for example) compared to sensitive internal core code. Sadly it is all integrated so this discussion can't go very far at this time.
    chickeneer, Oct 27, 2019
    #155
    padde73, CrackpotCreator, Silken_thread and 6 others like this.
  16. So where do we draw the line with talking about private reports? Because these seem very contradictory to me.

    And to hash: I really do like your response, however I feel like it's been misguided towards the wrong people.

    I would've liked to answer all of these posts individually hence why I asked ot to be locked however there's not a chance if that happening now.

    My heart aches to be writing all of this, but the situation has gotten far too out of hand for me to sit on silence.
    _REMOVED_87055, Oct 27, 2019
    #156
    FadedMartian, Tayolren, Otus_NigRum and 1 other person like this.
  17. I apologize for not being immediately available for helping this particular situation. Something always kept creeping up, but that is no excuse. I DO have communication going with staff and you've seen it, so I know you are using a very small percentage of non-communication to overrule the many days of constant communication and management that you know goes on behind the scenes.

    I wish I could say something that would make you understand, but it's clear that you need more time.
    Krysyy, Oct 27, 2019
    #157
    607 likes this.
  18. I stated something very clear to make it obvious why the post was not locked to get ahead of any argument that a report was 'ignored'. If you had a problem with having the reason known, then that's a problem in itself. Did you want me to lock it in hopes that the players would think we were censoring them? I personally feel like this was a game to be played and you are upset I didn't fall into it. I hate feeling that way.

    Nevertheless, I stand by my decision to make the report detail and comment public. If you have a problem with my transparency now, that is your choice.
    Krysyy, Oct 27, 2019
    #158
  19. Been debating off & on whether I should post on this or not... now that the mud-slinging has largely died down and there's some constructive thoughts going on, I suppose there's no harm in it. So, for whatever this tiger's humble opinion is worth:

    -No, Krysyy's not always as diplomatic as she could be, but she's also extremely fair, and works harder for EMC than (almost) anyone else I know. Not gonna speak to staff drama, as that's for staff to sort out.

    -There's always going to be some people who have... shall I say, personality conflicts with her. Management style being what it is, sometimes her approach rubs some folks the wrong way (myself included, a time or two). I've said even back as far as 2014 when Maxarias was still active that a second CM (or someone in a comparable position) was needed to help "balance things out." That said, I don't actually recall her being wrong in the decisions she's made - my disagreements have always been "You really could've handled that better."

    -Same goes double for Aikar. Awesome coder. Lousy at PR. ;) But it's always been that way, as far back as I can remember.

    -This is utter nonsense:
    Seen too many "bash on staff" threads over the years - sometimes a good point or two is raised, more often than not they're just dumping grounds for vitriol and pent-up angst. By their very nature, threads like this attract the disaffected, which always results in a disproportionately large amount of unpleasantness. After a while, you learn to ignore such things, or at least break out the popcorn.

    -1.14 managed to renew my interest in Minecraft for a while. Really enjoy the new Village mechanics. I know there's all kinds of technical hurdles to overcome in getting there, but waiting for EMC to get there... bleh.

    -I kinda... don't want the forum to update. I've seen far too many boards "upgrade" over the years, and they range from inconvenient to downright maddening in the things that move / break / need resetting. Plus, I am perfectly fine with the 'outdated' appearance - personally, I hate the modern 'flat UI' Windows 8 design trend with a fiery passion and would sooner be taxidermied alive than see EMC turn into yet another soulless miasma of boring solid-color rectangles. Or better yet, find the fluff-wad who started that design trend, and taxidermy them, alive.
    Kephras, Oct 27, 2019
    #159
    Tuqueque, Rhycicles, ItsMeWolffpack and 15 others like this.
  20. The problem is that it was never just that occasion and you KNOW it, please stop wasting my time with these kinds of replies. I'd be interested to see what % of my messages to you were answered in reasonable time/at all but I don't have access to that anymore obviously

    I'm really not interested in playing games with you. I have specifically stated why I wanted it locked temporarily so I'm not entirely sure why you have started drawing other conclusions
    _REMOVED_87055, Oct 27, 2019
    #160
    Tayolren, TheBeansyKiraboo and Otus_NigRum like this.
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