[DEBATE] Presidential Election - 2016 (closing Nov 22)

I'd rather vote for them than our current choices. Just don't tell Trump or he'll want to build another wall.

And make the Martians pay for it.

I am having a serious problem reading the chart. The writing is way too small. How do we compare to other developed nations like the UK, France, Germany, etc... ? Sure I believe the murder rate in south or central American countries or African countries could be higher primarily due to poverty or political unrest but it is kinda hard to make a case that firearms in the US don't affect murder rates due to the murder rate in Venezuela being higher. Know what I mean?

Thank you for validating what I was thinking. This is (probably) part of the reason why this thread got off-topic from it's original purpose so quickly. More of a reason why I believe the sooner it gets closed, the better it'll be for the EMC community.

If it doesn't get closed, then I'll just remove this thread from my "email when a new post or reply has been made" list. Nothing new is being talked about, rather to me, it's more than I wanted to hear. That is, unless someone has something new to say that I'd be interested in, then I'd take what I said back, until then, SouldPunisher, thank you for validating what I was thinking. (Also, Vice Versa with Hillary too.)

Eh, it never really got off topic. People just started discussing stuff related to the candidates, Presidents, and the wide breadth of topics a presidential election has to encompass. It's poor discussion, but IMO it never went off-topic and its stayed pretty civil for the most part. I agree that it should be locked eventually, but not on election day - there'll still be stuff to discuss then. Maybe leave it a few days or weeks?

I'd like to point you to Australia on that chart. We have possibly the strictest gun laws in the world and as a result, we sit very close to the start of that spectrum. You should also note that most countries to the right of the US are third world countries, where this would (unfortunately) be expected.

I had responded to your post but you didn't respond back so I decided to look at it myself. Yes, I would expect many third world countries with extreme poverty, social unrest or in the midst of war to have higher murder rates. As we know in many countries much of the population not only have guns but fully automatic weapons. etc... If we compare ourselves to other nations that are have more comparable social and economic factors the results are appalling. What is this huge disparity due to? We just hate ourselves more? That's probably it, we just hate ourselves more. Or maybe it could be that it's just a he** of alot easier to murder someone by blowing their brains out with a gun than trying to stab or club them to death. And Hillary is condemned because she wants to do something about this. Shame on her.

To each their own man. I just hope the moderators and/or staff do the right thing with this thread at the right time...

Is this thread stressing you out? Do you do yoga? If not you should try it. I find it very relaxing. That and maybe a frothy pint mate.

Ah yes, the failures of social media and the key clues that people need to see/hear for them to tell what the other person is like...

I know things can get out of hand, and like I said earlier, this forum is way off from what the original intentions were. (See the first post of the thread if you need a refresher.) There's no need for this thread to be accessible or even exist after the election. Just speaking my opinion, no hate or anything.

A forum post is like a muscle car with a brick on the accelerator. Best to let it go. Trying to control it will just make things worse.

Same here, I would like a female president, but I'm ashamed that it's Hillary. RIP Bernie, I would have voted for you if you didn't drop out. Now I have to vote for Hillary... :\

This thread has become quite... I don't know the word but... it's enough that I don't want to keep getting alerts from this, rather, I'd like to see the moderators step in and deal with it. (Removed from my alerts list.)

If any of you dare to talk politics with me, send me a PM, I'm done with this thread. (Do me a favor, don't PM me.)

^Better exit than Brexit, at least.

This little 6 year old just died. He was shot by a 14 year old who had no idea who he was. He loved superheros and the people who attended his funeral dressed up as superheros. He was laid to rest in a batman costume. He loved life and only wanted to live. If that 14 year old didn't have a gun he would still be able to live. love, and be loved. I didn't know him but I bet he would've been a great minecraft player. When I watched video of his funeral tears came to my eyes. Don't tell me that gun rights aren't a part of this election, it is. How much pain is enough?

Did anyone see how a group of 30 former GOP lawmakers came out with a letter urging the party to reject Trump for president. These were big time republican congressmen too. Below is part of what they said.

"In nominating Donald Trump, the Republican Party has asked the people of the United States to entrust their future to a man who insults women, mocks the handicapped, urges that dissent be met with violence, seeks to impose religious tests for entry into the United States, and applies a de facto ethnicity test to judges," the group said.
"He offends our allies and praises dictators. His public statements are peppered with lies. He belittles our heroes and insults the parents of men who have died serving our country. Every day brings a fresh revelation that highlights the unacceptable danger in electing him to lead our nation."
"We are proud of our service in the United States Congress and proud that we served in that role as Republicans," the letter states.
"It is in that spirit that, as Donald Trump's unfitness for public office has become ever more apparent, we urge our fellow Republicans not to vote for this man whose disgraceful candidacy is indefensible. This is no longer about our party; it's now about America. We may differ on how we will cast our ballots in November but none of us will vote for Donald Trump."

Instead of saying all of this ... again... I'm just gonna let the article talk for me.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-there-so-much-crime-in-America

Some points the article DOESN'T mention: drug war, private for-profit prisons and a focus on employing low intelligence people for law enforcement jobs. Also, if you want to look through the US code you will see that none of the countries mentioned in the article even compare when it comes to the massive inclusion of crimes. There is only speculation on how many crimes are actually included by the US code because the literature is so extensive it would take one person multiple life times to read through it all. Many articles I have read speculate that the AVERAGE American commits 3 federal felony offenses A DAY!! This due to the vague terminology and breadth of the US code. Australia and Canada as comparisons to any developed country are just plain out silly as both countries have a much much much lower population density. In the US when you look at places with similar population densities to either of those countries the average crime rate is actually lower, regardless of the police state that the US is.

God of gods story there makes it seem like this is a commonplace thing in the US and it simply is not. Over 28 years of life I have not in that whole time known anyone whose child got ahold of a firearm and killed another. National news is obviously more inclusive than my lone experience and to say that it never happens would surely be wrong. To say that it is commonplace is just as wrong though.

If this teen didn't have tennis shoes or a sunbed he would still be alive:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654034/Teenage-cuts-throat-sunbed-dies.html

I don't believe that firearms make murder easier. According to the FBI homicide reports from 2008 and 2009 more people are killed by knives and sharp objects, although the numbers are not much different than that of guns. Guns only account for twice as many murders as those committed with no weapon but hands/feet and blunt weapons account for about the same as unarmed murders. Then you get to other weapons like cars. I personally can't find the statistics on cars used in homicide, I looked for a little while and got bored. I did find this though:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/bruce-krafft/comparing-car-and-gun-fatalities-is-misleading-and-irrelevant/



ps: mba I replied, if you look at the times I post, I didn't ignore you I just hadn't been on yet. Since you expect reply, of course I do too

I was not trying to say it was commonplace. I'm older than you and don't personally know any child that shot another child with intent to kill him. I read your article. I certainly am not saying that because there are so many guns in the US is the only factor in why people are murdered. It isn't. I can identify one that was a factor in both the Aurora Murders, where James Holmes with an assault rifle murdered 12 people in a movie theatre (wouldn't have been able to do that with a club) or the Sandy Hook murders where Adam Lanza with an assault rifle systematically shot and murdered 20 6 and 7 year olds as they laid on the ground begging for their lives (couldn't do that with a club either). The other factor is our horrid mental health system. I believe firmly that if we could give individuals in need treatment at the level they do in Europe that would affect our violent crime rate significantly. And I know a little about this as I am employed in that area. But whenever Democrats try to fund it the Republicans shoot them down. I believe the Republicans would not spend a penny on mental health in this country if they could help it.

Not sure what someone falling out of a tanning bed onto a piece of glass has to do with murder or gun control. Yes, if we outlawed cars a lot fewer people would die in car accidents too.

Really? Tell that to hunters, don't go deer hunting with a gun use a club. Or how about the military, don't use guns fight the other guys with a club and throw rocks at them. I own a couple guns and have shot guns extensively both hunting and target (mostly target), and I assure you I would much rather have a gun if I wanted to kill someone. I don't have one but I would much rather have an assault rifle for the speed of firing and larger caliber so I could cause as much damage as possible with each shot. I get sick of republicans pandering to me about guns. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", sure but it's a heck of alot easier with a gun. I'm not an idiot. Without guns the murder rate would decrease. If you want to say that's not true try telling it to one of the parents at Sandy Hook. The republicans should be more honest instead of thinking we are stupid. They should say, if the teachers were armed at Sandy Hook that wouldn't have happened or if the theatre goers had guns at Aurora that wouldn't have happened. And they should reference the times when a person was able to defend themselves with a gun that saved their lives, cause that does happen. But they don't, they treat us like we're morons. I'm not for outlawing guns, just restricting them better.

To start, if you think I am a republican: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now that that is out of the way... Hunters can hunt much better without guns... they are called traps. In fact they are so effective that they are damn near impossible to get licensed for and carry a very hefty fine. I'm not touching aurora and sandy hook, believe what you want. Bombs could very well kill 20 people in a concrete structure. Tannerite actually seems to be getting a lot of press lately so I'm just waiting for that one to "blow up." The military... really? Most of the US military might and show of power is done without guns. Aircraft carriers, bombs, drones.

If there ever was an argument to outlaw guns, you guys are so far off base it is incredible. The second amendment was written so that the people could take up arms against the government. Now... there is your argument. The government has nukes, drones, tanks, bombers and other technologies that would make small arms ballistics completely ineffective against a tyrannical take over. There you go. Now you can start talking about taking away the guns with some sense. This whole murders and crime thing is completely ass backwards.

This has been brought up before and it was shot down with "the will of the American people is stronger than a tyrannical government".

I don't want to see that again - I prefer my current level of brain cells.

I am astounded that anyone could want to vote for him but what really astounds me is how any woman could ever consider voting for him. But there are many women who will. What does this say for our society and what could these women be thinking not only about him but also about themselves. It's very sad.