ok so set a longer time limit then? seems like an easy enough solution...also i live in the wild so i literally never see market chat because thats why we did it that way, so that players that didnt want to take part in the economy on the forums didnt have to see it, and those in town can mute the channel... like how is limiting auction runners ability to get the word out about their goods completely a better solution than just having say a 12 hour bump timer? which also includes in game advertising on the market chat. that would both allow for auction runners to get the word out and also cut out any meaningful use of the word "spam" (cause to put it plainly there just isnt that many auctions usually running and once the fanfare of the single item auctions runs out it will go back to that) why is there no room for compromise in what clearly is a contentious update? why no poll asking the community for ideas or opinions on the "spam" of auction threads?
In short: I'm stupid again. (I got lost in a nuanced translation issue) Longer explanation: Found the problem. I was translating the word "exploit" poorly: I don't know if you speak multiple langues, I beleve you didn't, so I'll explain it a little. Most words are derectly translateble, or at least translateble in a way, but not all: The Dutch word "Gezellig" is, for example, impossible to translate to English you cannot say that something is "gezellig" in any way. Usually, whe learning a langue, you don't learn the exact defenition of a word, but what word of your original langue comes closest to it. Something similar seems to be the case with "exploiting": Using something in a way considered unfair. The Dutch word that comes closest to it is "Misbruiken": Using something with the purpuse of someing considered immoral. This difference is negliceteble in most cenarios, but is crucial in this case: Auto-mining cobblestone with a book on your key is exploiting, as you're doing something that is listed in the rules as unfair, but it's not "misbruiken", because why you're doing it: getting cobblestone, isn't immoral. (I had to use a dictionairy on all words in the rule to find this issue, it's not an obvious one)
Because the forum community aren't the players this is aimed to help. There's so many players in-game that don't go on the forums and don't speak up about their opinion on here. For that matter there are so many players that lurk on the forums but don't want to post because they are shy or maybe afraid. I post a survey and the same est. 100 players answer. Those same players are constantly active and have set motivations. Short of a few outliers, we can usually predict a forum community reaction without a poll. If you think we make these decisions without analyzing every possibility, you underestimate staff. We discuss and deliberate over these changes. We discuss what's going to happen and what responses will look like. We anticipate arguments made and steered compromises. Changes to rules are not handled lightly, and are a constant balance. The balance has shifted temporarily, as expected, because it's a drastic change. In the long run, this change will make a large difference in maintaining a balance for auctions and the forums as a whole. You just won't see it yet.
wait...so you are making FORUM policy changes for people that dont go on the forums?! did i misunderstand that?
Yes you did misunderstand. The specific rule I was referencing was the in-game adverts one which affects all in-game players.
I like most of the rules, but I feel like because the new auction rules a lot of people won't be able to make as much money because their auction won't be found as constant as "last time".
As much as I like the bumping of auctions, this does make a lot of sense oh well, guess I have to manually open the auction threads like a heathen I'm kidding, I'll manage
I know Krysyy mentioned it. But I am personally advocating that we add a quick link to the auctions forum, somewhere from the front page. Since, arguably it is the most active part of our forums. For how active those forums are, it is sad that more interested parties do not actively browse the forum listing - instead relying on the recent threads listing. (comment not necessarily just pointed at Imulsive_Egg; just the most recent to reply).
I feel like this will make auctions almost cease to exist. No one is going to want to risk possibly getting way less than their item is worth, so they’ll just post it on the selling threads. I can’t see how this is a good idea and I have never seen anyone complain about the recent threads being full of auctions (until rhy in this thread) or people complaining in game unless someone was breaking the old rule and posting it multiple times in a row.
I agree that some minor changes could've been made to auctions to reduce the spamminess of them all, im not too happy about removing advertising into games altogether but I can understand it and be ok with it's implementation. What I can NOT be ok with is complete removal of bumping. It removes one of the main abilities to get traction into an auction to have an authentic back and forth. Train the player base, don't train the player base, it doesn't matter because at the end of the day this is Minecraft, and people want to play a game, not work to look through a glutton of auctions and all the new players who think a stack if dirt is worth something. I know you mentioned being a balanced auction house: this is something Empire can NEVER achieve. Players are far too inconsistent, and with the number of active people there simply isn't a sufficient critical mass to support removing this ability, especially considering the inconsistency of the player base. I have to say I am hugely disappointed by the staff's approach to such drastic rule changes. There was a month long debate on macro's which like 10 players use, but nothing on this? "It spams in game chat;" ok remove it from in-game chat, dont throw the book out because some people are bad at advertising. I'm not expert at promos, but a bulk of appreciation happens when they are auctioned. I know I personally am part of auctions and I'm simply not sure about auctioning more, and give myself time to think about it. An inevitable bump comes through and I remember it and often times bid it up. This can cause items, promos or otherwise, to gain substantial value and I think is a necessary and proved method for effective auctions. To remove this ability is going to crater the promo market and drastically reduce the income of those that rely on auctions. A better alternative: a maximum of two bumps may be made between bids with a minimum time lapse of 12 hours Also for in-game advertising, I think the ability to do ONE in-game market chat advertisement that must include the item being auctioned, its current price, and a link to the forum with no other info (provide the example for people to follow) would drastically reduce spam while allowing an auctioneer to advertise through one more avenue to get traction for bids. But, all these rules would be awful if you keep the current state of one block auctions available. This is a total disaster and should be removed. Something much better would be relaxing the rules that keep disqualifying so many auctions that otherwise seem fine, i.e. a non-bored Krysyy head or an Empire Waffle. As the forums stand, I was about to start auctioning off a ton of rare (thought not necessarily valuable) promos, but I refuse to get lost in this absurd glut of auctions while you guys "train" Minecraft players to 'auction better.' HUGELY DISAPPOINTING
I have mixed feelings about the no bumping rule change. On one hand I expect it will force anyone seriously interested in participating into the Auction section of the forum instead of just watching the recently bumped threads list. I already do this myself, especially with Reverse Auctions. It will take some time, but I went through part of the first page of Auctions this morning and can already see that people are doing this. I also expect everyone to be more thoughtful about what they offer and when they will initially post their auction. This may be a problem for those who live in a part of the world where posting around the Eastern Time Zone is inconvenient, since that is probably the time zone with the largest number of players. On the other hand, I do not like that a host may lose an interested bidder because they cannot post to even answer a question. Or possibly, those who make a mistake on the wording of their Auction. This would be especially so for new players who aren't yet familiar with PM's and who to contact. I've disliked the way some people have been disrespectful when bumping, but the rule seems punitive in this respect. If I would ask for any changes, it would be to allow us to answer questions or to add useful information we may have forgotten in the original post. One other thing: If we are going to have these rules, I think the Staff needs to proactively police them rather than waiting for Reports. If someone bumps a thread in the middle of the night and no one sees it in the recent threads or no one bothers to Report it, they've still broken a rule and bumped their thread to the top of the list. The same goes for us not using multiple accounts and other automation/farming type rules. I have been here over six years and spent a lot of my early time here especially farming. I have only ever been checked by a Moderator to make sure I was active once. I am not going to bother checking to see whether the players I know have been getting away with disregarding these types of rules in the past are still. It is not something I would expect most players to do unless it was their responsibility like it is for staff. When I went through the Auctions, I skipped those Auctions that were for one item since they already obviously were aware of the new rules. Of the others I checked, maybe half were still bumping in some way. In fact, one received several bumps because they were discussing the fact that the host was not allowed to bump instead of just clicking the Report button. In another, a moderator has the current last bid and the host added a "helpful" post. I added quotes around my previous statement, not because the information was not helpful, but because it is now considered a bump rather than helpful information. Since the host has been objecting to the new rule here in this thread, I know that they knew they weren't supposed to and did anyway as should the Moderator, yet no action was taken. I also expect some players will be tempted to use alts or encourage friends to bid on their Auctions. Unless someone knows another player well, most normal players aren't going to know the difference. In the past we've relied a lot on normal players to monitor the forums. I do not think your average player will be able to detect these types of offenses, and if they do, many will not Report them. If we are going to have these rules, in fairness to those who do not try to bend them, I hope Staff will be more proactive enforcing them than they have been in the past.
Regardless, those are the players that vote and those votes shouldn't be ignored. Especially something changed with the rules like this. I've liked the community discussion of the macro rule, why was the auction rules any different? Now that would be a good compromise with the current rules in place I got problems with your point of view, Krysyy and you can see it here on this thread how that's going for this rule change. I say open up a little bit and see how the community is holding up to it and revise.
Personally... This new no bumping or advertising auctions rule is down right ridiculous. Have you ever heard of "If its not broken do fix it" ? Seriously I hardly EVER post auctions and I dont really do looking for them either because Im not in need, but having them in the recently posted threads section, advertised on discord or in game doesnt bother me. What does bother me is I recently posted an auction and it lasted on recently posted threads for under 5 minutes. What happens to the people who post their auction while other people are posting so often and it doesnt even get to land on the recently posted threads. Dont tell me "people can search the auction section" because with your new rule of "quantity doesnt matter" that section is flooded and I could see it staying flooded. Maybe not with just 1 block items but with people selling very few. These two rules together dont make any sense.
Though this might have drawbacks like others said but this might somehow be a good thing and like Krysyy said it was implemented to balance out the for auctions and the forums. It was meant to help not harm the economy because with all the recent spams I can see why this change was needed to be implemented in.
It's completely ridiculous are you trying to make auctions obsolete cause the economy of non-popular servers will become even worse.. this is horrible for emc
Ill be honest (as always)...What the heck.... No bumping threads? Youve got to be kidding me? bye bye auctions for me.
Auctions with 1 dirt or 1 grass blocks show why these new auction rules are totally flawed. This all started because mods are too lazy to talk to aikar and tell him to remove auction threads from the recent threads page its ludicrous.
