PSA: Infinite Villagers are gone in 1.8

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Aikar, May 3, 2015.

  1. The additional trade essentially allowed them to continue being used the same way they have been used since whenever 1.7 mechanics started. They would get 2 paper trades, but that doesn't actually result in any more emeralds, and at least in my single player world does not result in both trades getting activated simultaneously, though maybe someone found a way. I guess I wouldn't be surprised.

    Anyway, my response was more meant for those who chose to attack the character of anyone who disagreed for them, and less for Aikar and whoever else develops this stuff. I'm alright with this new way of doing things. In particular I like the way that the people who actually pay for the server were given a chance to have their opinions heard; that was more than I expected. I still don't think any custom coding is necessary, but at least the process was open and honest rather than what it was a day ago.
    SkareCboi likes this.
  2. there was an earlier post in this thread reporting that it was possible to get double the emeralds
  3. I must have missed that one. Well I can't manage to duplicate the effect (though I didn't try very hard). How's it done?

    What's the story with priests and butchers with this custom code? They will gain all of the available 1.8 trades that didn't already exist in 1.7 or only librarians are affected by this coding?
  4. I couldnt find the post either so I hit google. What im seeing is its only possible if you get the same trade numbers. So rare, but possible to dupe
  5. Do you have a link or at least the keywords you used? I literally cannot find it on Google, and this time I did try.

    Can the trade number thing happen on its own or does it require some kind of editing program for single player?

    Seems better to target doubling trade #'s than villagers in general. I think there are other duping methods that are alive and well on EMC, though I can't cite any specifically (please don't). It just seems better to me to try to target the cheaters than the legitimate, hard working emerald farmers. Hard to say though since I can neither code nor find the link on Google.
  6. So like.. what ever is the problem with eggifying a villager, respawning it and trading all over again?

    Just wondering.. All this talk and complaining about infinites left me puzzled. I never had one in my (EMC) life and still managed to bag a good amount of emeralds....
  7. I don't think you understand fish... the last trade slot means absolutely nothing in 1.8. There is zero benefit for having any specific item in the last trade slot.

    Also, This WAS the discussion. I showed my findings and my thoughts on how to resolve the problem, and this thread was opportunity to provide ideas on improving it (hence why I made the thread now instead of just telling you what happened on the update thread).

    But instead of solutions and ideas from the upset people, we get hostile responses. That is not a proper way to get anything done.

    The "Riled up" (as you worded it) responses only made me more want to say "Oh well, keep it simple and reset all trades." and NOT find a better solution. It was the calm people who asked for clarity on that that gave me incentive to find another solution myself.

    Instead, people upset with changes should remain calm and offer ideas to help me formulate a better way to resolve it.

    No one did that... One could of suggested "can you overwrite 1.8 trades with the original 1.7 trades after conversion?" which is what I did. You don't have to be a programmer to formulate that kind of idea.

    We need suggestions and ideas, not hostility and "You don't know what you're doing" responses (which is how I take the comments about Dragon Tombs and etc).

    I very well know what I am doing. That's why you and others continue to play here.
    I don't have to explain myself on why I choose the order of things I work on.
  8. First it's painfully slow without a macro. Second, it barely even works right now, though it would be more effective in 1.8. Third, it seems far more along the lines of cheating and exploiting the game than anything Aikar's trying to prevent. Eggifying in general is OP. The ability to create infinite adult animals out of a single animal was not put into survival for a reason.

    Didn't people used to get banned for eggifying horses to speed up breeding? This seems pretty close to that. I'm not even sure why rapid eggifying hasn't been custom coded out of the game already, as when combined with dispensers it can be used to extremely increase the rate of production of any animal drop and xp, but let's not worry about that until Dragon Tombs, name changes, land claiming, and /games are all done.

    Entity limits unfortunately make tweaking your method to use a villager breeder too limited to be very useful on a large scale.

    Edit: In case anyone doesn't know, you can eggify any animal and replace it and it has a chance at being a baby/adult, but if you use a dispenser to place it, it's always an adult ready to breed, be sheared, lay eggs, be killed for meat, or trade emeralds.
  9. You ever tried to get a DC of emerald blocks that way? Yeah didn't think so. On another note, what is a good amount of emeralds to you? A few stacks is chump change and the demand to build with emeralds for me requires about a DC of blocks to make nifty designs. Re-egging isn't nearly as efficient as it is now with infinite villagers.
  10. I don't think you don't know what you're doing. I apologize if that's the message I sent. I think you're a genius, but you are very hurt for time. As a result you were forced to rush the 1.8 update, and as a result of that you made a rash decision.
    You didn't ask for opinions. You declaratively stated that everyone else was wrong and here was how it's gonna be.
    Most of my hostility isn't even toward you. It's just hard to define objects on the Internet. I should be clearer.
    Though I do think this business with the villagers will do more harm than good, and that your extremely limited time would be better spent adding positive things to the Empire, even if it was one line of code, surely that line could have made my Blizz Ard noses do something.

    My comments about dragon tombs are not about your ability, but about your motivation. Why are you making deleterious code when so many productive things are still unfinished? That is a question I genuinely want the answer to. Some of these posts were promised 3+ years ago, and the explanations and apologies are hard to come by. Sure this was an odd post to say it in, but I can't be the only one wondering this. I just don't think that limiting gameplay or frustrating the plans of players is the solution to any existing problem on this server.
    No, you don't have to explain yourself, but common courtesy and honesty aside, wouldn't it be a good business move to at least try?

    I have spoken awesome things about you since the day I joined, it's just unfortunate that those aren't publicly stated in text on the forums. I think you rock. I just think that the time crunch led to a bit of a tactical error.

    We've all been waiting for 1.8 for ages and the first news we get about it is that all of our preparation was for nothing and it was our own fault for not expecting you to come up with an idea you were going to have some day in the future. You can see how that might be a bit frustrating, no?

    (Edited cause I ranted too long, and I'm not sure it was all even sentences)
    SkareCboi and southpark347 like this.
  11. Ayeee... I couldn't of said it better myself.
  12. I suppose this might be a bad time to suggest Aikar writes a code that makes pigs poop out diamonds? :p only kidding, just so you know
    fishmeal likes this.
  13. Yups.

    Ok.

    I quoted you? I compared re-egging with something I didn't fully understand and asked questions about?

    Did I hit a sensitive nerve here, because it sure as heck seems so...

    Could this be merely about effort and the unwillingness to put extra of that into something you already got accustomed to? Because I sense a lot of hostility here around a simple question. And that's usually a sign that other, deeper, stakes are involved here.
    jkjkjk182 and kevmeup like this.
  14. Take a breath guys take a breath it's getting far too heated on this thread
  15. Look mate, you're not in this business of emeralds. It doesn't affect you because its not something you do often. Yeah so why would you care. You shouldn't. Why should I have to put EXTRA LONGER work into something that can be easily fixed. Yeah I did the research and there is a way to keep these villagers the same as they are now but "we don't use other people's code' has gotten in the way and now this other code has exterminated the idea of infinite villagers simply because 'Their too unfair for those who are too lazy to get their own'. Oh and you bet I am hostile to those who don't have a clue what they are talking about especially something they don't understand 'whats the big deal'. I've been on this server for 3 years + and observed the climb and the fall. I'm pretty sure we've been in the fall for at least 8 months now. Ever since they talked about Dragon Tombs for a second time. It was over from there.
  16. The books stay fixed though right?
  17. you're free to believe we're in a fall, but my opinion and the numbers in reports disagree...
    Having to lower max server cap because we broke recent max online records and all recently... yeah.

    My post wasn't meant to declare "Wrong doing" by anyone. It was meant to be informative that it was the impression many had that things would stay the same, and I was trying to relay that based on actual study of the games code that those expectations were wrong.

    Yes I admit it wasn't perfectly clear suggestions were welcome - but thats the general idea of EMC overall - If a better idea is proposed for any topic that I agree with, then I'll implement it.

    Nothing is final if you convince me there is a better way to do something. However, if we couldn't find a solution to the issue, I wouldn't want to forever hold up the 1.8 release over it... So my original statement would of been the fallback option.

    Many of my more 'opinionated' threads fall into this same issue: I post problem, I post my solution to problem, people get upset with solution, some accept the solution, some threaten to quit over solution, some may give ideas that lead me to another solution, then a better solution is usually found.

    We always try to compromise and find a solution that is better than the original, in like every single heated thread we've had, this has always been the case.

    Once a trade has been added to your villager, that trade will never change. "Reset" means resetting the locks, not the trades themselves.
    melk73 likes this.
  18. Keep the thread back on topic of villagers in 1.8 please

    We are no longer going to discuss opinions on development priorities, on this thread or another.
    You're welcome to opinions, but complaining about my choices achieves nothing.
  19. See this is what makes some people so upset.....you have never worked much with villagers so you assumed that losing them would be no big deal. For some people, they have spent hours trading with villagers in order to get certain trades and built businesses and farms around those villagers. This is how they have fun on minecraft. If you really work at it, you can get some fantastic trades, not just paper for emeralds.

    For months now, people have been talking about how existing villagers would keep their trades but new ones would always be random. So it was quite surprising to learn that in less than 24 hours or at most a couple of days, thousands of villagers would be reset. If everyone had known in advance that those trades might disappear, they would have been busy using those villagers, stockpiling inventory for their businesses. Also if you knew that the villagers could be reset, you would not invest hours in creating new infinite ones.

    I'm not talking about Aikar. I truly believe he is doing the best he can running EMC on a part-time basis since EMC doesn't pay enough to be a full time job. I'm talking about all the other people who say this change doesn't affect me, therefore it is unimportant, why are you crying about it?

    So while I don't agree with people being disrespectful to the owner of EMC or disrespectful of other people over this issue, I certainly can empathize with them. The great thing about minecraft, is you can chose your own way of "winning the game". You pick what you want to specialize in, learn all about it, and make it yours. Sometimes the part of minecraft you specialize in gets nerfed by Mojang and it causes you to lose a lot and it hurts.

    So anyway, this post is not meant to attack anyone. I am just asking that people try to empathize with others.

    Edit sorry this is off topic, it took me so long to compose it that it was posted after the warning. Sorry.
  20. First and foremost: this is how it's done. I don't care about assumptions but the hostility up front.. yah, no workie.

    To be honest I never said that. I saw the ads people made and I saw the prices some charged for infinite villagers. I never bothered but I know for a fact others did. For sure: I'll be the first to state this isn't much of a big deal to me, but don't let that confuse your judgment on my comments.

    Finally some reasoning....

    I can see where you're coming from and not just that: I can respect it. Sincerely. More than that last comment I got (hey; what comes around...).

    In all honesty. I can't help wonder where all those other players got their sources from. I can confirm that in vanilla gameplay (singe player) villagers keep their trades when being upgraded to 1.8. But the amount of trades can still change. But considering that Aikar has said himself several times that 1.8 was getting postponed due to work I also can't help wonder how reasonable it was to credit those other players as reasonable sources?

    I know I'm talking after the facts now (all too easy). But... Why not throw this into the community? I'm fairly sure no forum posts were made discussing all this..

    Well, and there's also Aikars recent comment. About only having started to work on 1.8 recently..

    Completely fair points in my opinion. However.. yes, there's always one of those.. I think Aikars recent comment on how he only recently started working on 1.8 also deserves some consideration. In some cases I can be as skeptic as you are, maybe worse, but his last comment sounded pretty reasonable to me.

    Also; he did come back on that statement about resetting.

    That comment too works both ways. Even so; just remembering the prices being charged alone I can easily come up with reasons why this would be a big deal.

    Totally agreed. However; isn't that basically what we're talking about here? I mean; I've seen earlier comments which solely focused on the infinite villagers disappearing as if this was an EMC issue. Even though it could be demonstrated that it was basically, more or less, EMC responding to a Mojang initiated change.

    Even so, I do think you raise some interesting points.