EMC New Permanent Ban Stance

i know.. i've been pwned! lol

Also:

I think a point to make that seems to be skipped, or maybe I looked over it, is that the alternative to getting a second chance would be to not be given one at all. At that point, the rupees / lots / etc still end up disappearing.

I'm happy as a mod that I'll be able to give more players a fair second chance with this. There's been several times where I've felt that a player needed to remain banned because of what they've gotten illegitimately or damage they've caused even if they've sincerely been sorry (or sounded that way to me) because unbanning them would not be fair to other players on the server.

this is true

I've been kicked for dropping items to fast, it said I was hacking...um...no?... Will I get perma-banned for suppositly "hacking?"

Oh.. haha... So are you and Christina related.... or just friends?

Only if you are 100% Legitimately hacking.

Moderators are only people. Mistakes do happen, though It doesn't happen that much, it's possible. I'm sure it looked as if you were hacking, when you really weren't

True

how do you drop an item too fast?

that is what im wondering...

they said they were kicked "for hacking" when dropping items too fast. is that what it actually said? it said specifically in the kick message that it was hacking?

something about your story isn't adding up.

That's an automated system kick, I think Happens to me sometimes when I crash a boat, and it says I'm "moving too fast".

ohhh okay, that makes sense. the moving too fast kick. that happened to me once and at a very ackward time. someone had got caught with a sand gen and everyone was on that res along with an admin (forget which one) who was there destroying it and i jumped up on top of it and the thing glitched and kicked me saying i was moving too fast.

they were confusing because they said they were kicked for hacking.

Same when I enter my lair sometimes.

Lol

O_O. Now i'm more scared than a random guy finding slender man. Only God can help me now.

thats happened to me a few times too lol. or if someone destroys the boat while im sailing >.>

Laws differ from country to country and state to state. But this case - IMO - is quite simple if you consider that "reasonable ground:" banning the word "purple" wouldn't be a reasonable, it would indeed be horrible, therefore it would be an offense and not legal. It is not legal to offend people.

But, actually, I didn't really want to start a legal debate. I'm sure no one here wants to even touch the "horrible" threshold, that, I think as well, is mostly quite above the legal bar.

IMO, it is very important for EMC community to deal with and reduce griefing and cheating.
I've been victim of griefing (about 5 times) and PvP (1 time, see http://empireminecraft.com/threads/mayday-please-help.11903/) myself.
You're right that cheating is poison for the game. Even more poisonous is griefing.
The effort by the staff to find the griefers and cheaters and deal with them is indeed very welcome.
I have some ideas how to further discourage griefing (in particular stealing and destroying others structures), but that would be a separate topic.

My point is that it is very sensitive matter how you treat offense and offenders and rule breaker - respective to the rules described under "Terms of Service" - and what you call those issues, those people and the corresponding actions. Not so much because of legal matters, but because of effects it has on the community.

The image of the angry, overly strict nun is a very negative one. Among other things, it represents moral judgment and it represents prejudice. I hope Kalland Labs and staff don't (want to) have anything in common with that.

Overly strict laws and punishments are characteristic of underdeveloped societies and dictatorships. Developed countries with higher level of personal freedom have more clement legislation. This is not without reason. There are patterns and symptoms in development of communities. Trying to solve social problems by deterrence, by overly hard or brutal punishments is very well known syndrom. This is bad for the community. Although deterrence does work, it is suboptimal to have harsh punishments. Communities with more clement penalties / punishments are healthier and are better off in the long run.

Now, I don't necessarily think that the proposed handling of major rule breaking (which qualifies for permanent ban) is too harsh. It depends on the practice, on how it is applied.

What makes me worry is ...

• the explicit announcement of a "more firm stance" and mention of "real punishment" together with the nun picture
• that no one seems to care about the fact that a vast majority of the offenders are underage children and that they need different treatment than adult wrongdoers
• that quite few (a majority?) call for harsh action against and permanent bans for offenders (who, IIUC, in same cases didn't really cause major harm) ... btw, this is a typical immature reaction...
• that so few have expressed concerns and called for careful, moderate approach
• that there is the idea that offenders need to be investigated and punished and that there are calls to punish the person, not just ban the account
• that there is the idea to try to solve social problems by technical means (interception, surveillance, ...), that people call for automated keyword based reporting - possibly even interception of private chat (!?)
• that the forum seems to be censored more than necessary (It seems that one of my postings just disappeared or is not accessible without a notice or explanation. This is not acceptable. That posting was about idea of an in-game jail and was no offense to anyone in any way...) That threads with unpleasant content get locked or hidden (or access is restricted) instead of censoring only the words and sentences that are offending and responding and explaining - like it is a standard practice in civilized communities that value personal freedom.
• that people are afraid to use caps in the chat for emphasis, and when someone does it, a "no caps" warning will usually follow from someone
• that people call "no advertising" when someone mentions a server / forum address, no matter of context
• that to deal with griefing, which is far bigger problem and poison for the game, isn't given priority
• that there are voices like "now we know how the rich get rich"
• that all of this together could be symptoms of an unhealthy community

Unfortunately, this unpleasant issues match very well known patterns of fear and violence.
I hope that it just seems so at the moment and that It actually isn't so. But it makes me worry.
I'm sorry ... I don't want to overly burden anyone with my worries. Perhaps I'm just too sensitive...
Thank you for reading and discussing.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of friendship and care on EMC, there is usually a friendly and positive atmosphere, usually a lot of fun. Otherwise I should not care that much...

Peace,
MM

I'm not going to comment on most of the stuff that you've said, as I wouldn't give an adequate answer.

However, it is having more lenient rules that has got us into the situation of having several ex-reputable players being caught cheating. Yes, the community would be amazing if there were less rules, but as we all know, some people would abuse the lack of rules to get ahead of others. Personally, I don't find playing on servers much fun if I'm competing with people who are using all sorts of hacked mods and things. In fact, I'd rather there were more rules, if it would mean that I was definitely on a level playing field with the rest of the server. Just remember what's happened to the financial industry over the last few years (mainly) due to all the de-regulation in the 1980s!

Also, I'm pretty sure facebook has the power to delete users' comments if they're reported for being offensive etc, so I don't see why EMC can't have that power too?

I agree that it isn't ideal, but that's just the sad reality of the internet, I suppose.