[DEBATE] PVP servers and shop updates

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Herbrin3, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. EDIT: This was an off topic discussion on another thread, i've split it off to remove the offtopic from the other thread.
    Original thread: http://empireminecraft.com/threads/the-imperial-guild-pvp.13491/

    Yeah, but it's a culture thing.

    If EMC is "no PVP, at all, anywhere, ever, not even a little bit" - then that's a rule.

    Once we cross that line - in any way... even if it's in some specific place, under certain conditions... then it corrupts that core value.

    Problem being, once players think "PvP is OK" (even in just one place) then they think that's the atmosphere - one of rivalry, a battleground-mentality.

    If we stay "pure" as "NO PVP" then we can build community. Once there's places where people can throw lava on each other, it makes it much harder to be friendly.
  2. Uh, you people and your "Core Gaming Values" just think of what you want. It doesn't work like that. There will be a PvP server and you never have to log in if you don't want to.
  3. Yea some thing like that, I probably think when you kill, you get points to buy at the shop.
    pat2011 likes this.
  4. Unfortunately, you're not understanding what I'm trying to say.
    If EMC becomes a place where PVP is permitted - even if it's on one specific server - then it changes the nature of EMC. It's hard to be community-spirited when there's people pouring lava on each other. So, even if I don't use the PVP server, it'll still affect the rest of EMC.
  5. Don't get me wrong, there are many people that hate PvP. They don't need to go close to the PvP Server. Many people love PvP, A bonus for EMC members. EMC needs to look at both sides, not just one. This could be a big jump for EMC considering it won't longer just have one aspect of Vanilla Minecraft.
  6. Let me use an analogy;

    Many people hate guns, and many people like guns. I don't like guns. I wouldn't join a gymnasium that had a shooting-range attached to it - of course, I could simply never use the shooting range; but still, I wouldn't like to be in a club that had one.
  7. What Herbrin3 is saying is that as soon as a PVP feature is released to EMC, it takes away the community spirit here, and encourages PVP everywhere. You can stay away from it, or go into it, either way, you're watching the world burn.

    People will just think it's okay when it actually isn't. No, it doesn't matter if you are 1 or 100,000,000 blocks away from the PVP, everyone is affected somehow.
  8. Another analogy I think makes sense is this:
    A dog poos in the park. Some people don't think it's okay, some people are fine with it. The poo still affects everybody at the park somehow though.

    In EMC:
    PvP is a feature in the community. Some users are for this and some are against this. But, this feature affects those using it and those not.
  9. Sorry Herbrin3, it's coming... ICC was the first one to tell the public I was working on it.

    It has been talked about for months now that there will be special servers coming.

    PVP will still be disallowed on SMP, and will result in a ban in the same way. Players playing on our PVP Server is no different than players playing on other PVP servers then coming back to EMC...

    The only difference here, is currently they have to go elsewhere to get a PVP fix, but we are fixing that and providing them the alternate gameplay they desire, right in EMC.

    If you don't want to PVP, then don't connect, but this falls back to the same issue as the shop system: Don't let your personal tastes ruin the fun and experience for others.

    MANY people, including myself, want PVP. I don't want to go to other servers. They aren't fun anyways. We will have a fun, unique PVP experience that people will play for hours on end, and then go back to smp and continue building things.

    If they PVP on SMP, they get banned. We have pretty good tools for determining PVP, so its a moot point.

    As for the guild -- note the first PVP server, in the way its designed, will not be tailored around roles, however thats not to say a future PVP game we create wouldnt :)

    Now I want to go work on the PVP server, thanks!
  10. Yeah, also, a lot of users are pretty stupid. They can just-about understand a 2-word rule, "No PVP" - mostly.

    But once you say "It's OK to PVP *here* but not *there*" it all gets too complicated for them to understand.
  11. Irony, much?
    Joshposh70, IamSaj, MR2R2M and 2 others like this.
  12. Oh hai thar. I don't PVP. I've never done PVP, and do not plan to do any PVP. If other players want to play PVP on EMC, great, good for them. I won't take that away from them. You not wanting it here means just stay on the core worlds, like I plan on doing. If you want, we can go build a giant statue of a squid together.. Or even better, a shoe. What they do over there is their own silliness, and what we do over here will be our own silliness. Aikar and I are about to leave, but when I get back.. How about we build that squid? ;)
  13. Your tastes limits others fun, where the other way around does not limit your fun (Just you have pessimistic views about what will happen, which are not going to happen)
    xI_LIKE_A_PIGx and ivonator123 like this.
  14. I think he may be referring to your tastes regarding the wild and pushing for wild related updates...
    Joshposh70 and roblikescake like this.
  15. What I've been trying to tell him/her all along.
  16. I would really need to disagree. Imagine as if the Server isn't even EMC. You don't need to mention it anywhere, just continue your SMP Fun. Don't ruin my fun, along with others. This is what I mean about EMC having 'Both aspects' of Vanilla Minecraft. I don't see how this would affect the community if it has nothing to do with building, making bases, etc.
  17. How does my future wild updates have anything to do with this?

    Are you saying its a bad thing we give the players what they want?
    If you don't want to play in the wild, then don't!
    If you don't want to use the new shop system, then don't!
    If you don't want to PVP, then don't!

    We are bringing OPTIONAL updates here. Just because you do not want to use them, does not mean everyone else should do without. Leave the pessimistic views about what "might" happen at the Title Screen.
  18. Just that, you don't seem to be listening to anyone; and you said it yourself - "Don't let your personal tastes ruin the fun and experience for others" - but that's what we're concerned you are doing.

    Of course not, but some want it, some don't; I do not see a massive majority in favour; but you're pressing ahead regardless, and you've made it clear that you're not exactly neutral on the question.

    You're not listening to those of us who have dedicated hundreds of hours to building up shops with reputations, which will be rendered pointless in the new system - there's nothing pessimistic about that.

    As for PVP, I base my viewpoint on experience of other servers - you said yourself ,

    -Think about that;

    Other servers which offer PVP are no fun - agreed.

    EMC is fun. And there's other non-PVP servers which I think you'll agree are "fun" (even if they're not as good as EMC).

    Why do you think that the PVP servers are not fun? It's because of the audience that they attract.

    It doesn't matter if it's just one area or one server; it's a mindset.

    P.S. Any chance of any info regarding the fact we haven't been able to log in for the past 2.5 hours? (See other threads)
  19. No, the idea's I'm pushing for are stuff that benefits a large portion of our population, and solves problems with our current infrastructure.

    This is nothing about my personal desires, it is based on my experience in the gaming genre as a developer for the past 5 years and on my experience playing MMO's for the past 8 years.

    • Shop System = Helps all players spend less time shopping and more on BUILDING
    • PVP Server = Wanted by large portion of the players, helps provide alternate gameplay experiences so players dont burn out, as well as provide something other people want who won't come to EMC without it, and also reduces PVP on the SMP servers because they now have a place they can go get their "fix"
    • Wilderness Updates = The wilderness _IS_ minecraft. This is a French Vanilla server, so why would we completely abandon the wild? As ICC Stated, Town is pretty solid, and we have a HUGE uprising in the number of players moving out of town and into the wild. Why would we not give these players some love, and give people more options for building, and take a more defensive stance against griefing?
    These are major things we want, and the players want.

    Justin's poll seems to indicate otherwise, and that's out of a SMP only Audience. Think about all the PVP players who don't play on EMC because we have no PVP. That instantly gives more push to the PVP side. And 50% is a large number of people... If we can add something that 50% of our players want that doesn't affect the other 50% who don't care for it, that is such a major win for us. The empire will grow tremendously. PVP will be lowered on the SMP's, its a major win.

    Also, lets not forget that 50% is negatively influenced in that people think PVP Would be enabled on the SMP servers. Ask people about PVP on the side that they are not forced to play? Then look at the numbers... I assure you itll be way more than 50% supporting PVP.

    We DID listen. We drastically changed the shop system, and have constantly tweaked the system to favor your concerns.

    We can not favor the minority and ignore the majority based on 0.01% of the players pessimistic views about how things will turn out.

    There is 12 years of hard evidence against your claims and supporting ours. It would make no sense for us to abort the shop system over 0.01% players pessimistic perspective.

    It's not that PVP isn't fun, it's that the other servers haven't done it right. We have an experience that will resolve the issues with PVP, and make it fun.

    If you like killing monsters in the wild, and like competition, then even non pvpers may even like what we have entail.
  20. Wow, Aikar your response is one that I could never collaborate.