The big debate on EMC ( religious one )

So... a bunch of fake photos and what I said is ridiculous. noted.

Yep. Still is.

EDIT: As I judge you to be more or less a rational human being, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don't actually think the Earth is flat and were simply playing devil's advocate to the preceding comment. That doesn't make the statement any less ridiculous, but it does mean I can continue to respect you as a person.

Slightly off topic, but science and religion have nothing to do with each other. Science is always knowing that something may be incorrect, and that you must reevaluate and adjust in accordance to new evidence (as defined by the scientific method). There is no absolute certainty in science; it's a method. It's terrifying, exhilarating, stimulating, and utterly uncertain. It provides us with tools. It's a method for discovery about the properties of the physical world/universe (and maybe even multiverse). Science is a way to question. To assume it truly gives answers though negates what science is all about.

tl;dr A fish doesn't require a bicycle, and a bicycle doesn't require a fish. I'm going to go play some Minecraft now

Man gotta use the same meme tonight. Relating to the world's being flat isn't a part of this discussion.



I will leave a guide
http://empireminecraft.com/threads/...ents-commonly-in-politics-and-religion.55799/

The biggest issue I have with religion is that everyones beliefs are based off someones interpretation of the Bible or Qur'an or whatever. They can interpret this in basically any way they want.

Basically like I said above, Islamic Extremists don't represent all Muslims, they represent their interpretation of the Qur'an, which the vast majority of Muslims themselves view as incorrect.

I don't actually think the world is flat. Through observation I know that the earth is not a globe that is 24,000 miles around. i also know that nasa has spent billions to reinforce the idea that it is. If the earth is a globe which i dont believe then it is MUCH bigger than 24,000 miles around. If it were a globe that small you would see the horizon below you when on a commercial flight at 30-38,000 feet above the ground. While you can look down and see the ground below you, you will be mystically surprised that when you look striaght out your window the horizon is not below you... at all. Its parellel to where you are viewing and in that window it goes straight across the sky. This would still be possible of the earth being a globe if it was 10+ times larger than the religion of science speculates.

Van Allen belts. This phenomena that has only been recently studied in detail completely refutes that any person ever travelled into "outer space" regardless of what we have been told. If we sent people to the moon in 1969 then we would have mining colonies and solar energy plants on the moon today. I dont not only not believe that no one has been there but that it is impossible and that no one has ever been to outerspace at all.

The flat earth society, if you look into what they actually go on about it is pretty interesting and while they cant prove the earth is flat, some of their expirements and (shocker) basic math make it very obvious that whatever shape the ground that we stand on is, in a whole, is not that of a small globe. This doesn't, however, simplify reality or the constructs of our universe but only serves to make it that much more wonderous. Not only our universe but also the socio-economic world and its influences on us and our minds as individuals as well.

Edit: the respect of someone that would say they can continue to respect another only if they believe the same as them is not one I seek to obtain

So you believe that somehow NASA (and Russia, and India, and China, and all of the countries in Europe + thousands of scientists around the world) has managed to hide this from everyone for the past 50 or more years. I'm quite sure that if what you're theorising was the case, then someone would have said something by now.

Thats a recent hollywood star neil degrasse tyson slip up. The man can put on a show but talking "smart" isn't something he can do without a teleprompter or a rehearsed script. The pear thing de-evolved from a simple argument about the spin of the earth. Which if you get into the basic math of gravity versus centrifugal forces of the spin of the Earth, you have people being crushed at the poles and flying off the face of the earth at the equator which doesn't seem to be too symbolic of reality. If you look at any of the "pictures" supposedly taken of Earth it is a perfect sphere, no bulging at all. I'm sure in time they will be doctored with the new idea of how it's supposed to be or the idea will completely be buried, whichever is decided to be easier to pass off.

Where this whole idea comes from is the amount of mass near the equator that is spinning faster would push the equator of the earth out and pull the poles in. This consequently wouldn't result in a "pear" shape at all but more of a compressed disk shape. Which again, if you look at the "pictures" is completely counter intuitive to what we have been shown or... err... have seen if that's how you want to phrase it.

Completely ignoring what I say and taking the stance of: that is just too fantastical. Does not address what I have said. If anything it makes it more interesting if you ask me. Also, millions of people have been saying it. You just either didn't hear them or didn't want to. Although I don't think you are 50 years old ;-)

Religion is not a science, and science is not a religion. To say otherwise is an ignorance that denies the most basic understanding of what the scientific method is. They don't have to be mutually exclusive either, and I happen to find this little comparison particularly fascinating:

Having said that, I'm not even sure which universe you're living in. You think everything is bloody propaganda, to the point where I wonder how you can even rationalize the use of GPS. Or hell, the satellite-view on Google maps? Armstrong and the rest were a bunch of actors, I presume? The Apollo program is just an age-long government conspiracy to outdo the Russians? Who have their own conspiracy going with cosmonauts, and... y'know what, I honestly just don't care.

What you believe personally is your call, and I can't change that. The only reason it bothers me is because the whole "moon landings were faked, we've never been in space" load of crap is personally insulting to the thousands of brilliant men and women who strive and struggle against these kind of ideas to advance mankind beyond our little blue marble. Huddle in your cave with your tinfoil hat if you want, it won't hurt anyone but you. Just don't insist we all join you in said delusion.

The discussion had started to drift towards science. I was just trying to pull back onto topic in a nice and polite way.
Science is not a religion unless you are only using a narrow definition of religion as "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance".


Faith, spiritualism, belief, and religions are not a method of inquiry about the physical world. It honestly saddens me when people try to somehow leverage the scientific method to support their faith or beliefs. If their faith needs evidence, it wasn't much of a faith at all then, was it? The beauty of faith is having it, not attempting to "prove" it.

I thank you for your callous, its particularly defining of your character and not just as of late. I do enjoy my tin foil hat however those pictures are not ones you took and they are also pictures that are recognizable the world over. You claim they are evidence of the scientific method but they are only what you are told. I don't know about you but when I think the scientific method I think of experiments that are reproducible. How much people are willing to accept because they are told it comes from "science" even though they can't be bothered with questioning it, is very scary. Whether you want to believe people went to the moon or not.

Edit: I do not recall ever telling anyone that they had to believe that no one went to the moon but that I, ME, this person, does not believe it. Which, ironically is exactly what started the first thread that got closed: someone claiming that an idea was being forced on them simply because they happened upon the idea. which... is subjective to the observer(you or OP of first thread)and symbolic importance that the observer placed on it(church... or jps name... or moon landing)

So, if we follow your logic, Jupiter shouldn't exist. But the issue is, it does. Jupiter spins about 22.4 times faster than Earth does, and its made of gas.

Now if we start doing some real maths, you'll find the centrifugal force at the equator is 0.03392 m/s^2. Now considering that the acceleration due to gravity is 9.81 m/s^2, then you can see the you won't be flying off the face of the Earth. So gravity is basically reduced at the equator by 1/3 of a percent.

I "believe" it because I can look up in the night sky and see the spark of light that is the ISS passing overhead. I can look through a telescope with my own two eyes and see it as it tracks past. I don't need government / hollywood "propaganda" to do that, I can manage perfectly well from my own back yard.

You SEE a light and BELIEVE(that whole faith thing that is supposedly only representative of religion in some way?) that there are people in there doing something that must be important for them to be in a big ole space craft flying around the world at some 15,000 mph in zero gravity. The idea is nice, fun to think about. I have a very hard time believing that it is a reality however.

When I take a step I have faith that the floor is not going to fall out from under my feet. According to studies in quantum physics dating back decades there is no reason I should be able to say with any certainty that anything is what I believe it is. Reality is faith. Reality is what you want of it. Religion is simply a conduit through which we try and explain our faith in this reality. If religion is completely outside of this reality then it doesn't exist. Faith and religion are permeable to the very fabric of our existence. Put whatever pretty colors you want on it and call it bob or the jedi order or the flying spaghetti monster or Christianity. This reality is truly mystical and attempting to belittle someone elses view on how it works doesn't give any more credence to your own theory. It just becomes a part of your reality.

Yeah, but when you get a telescope and zoom up on this light, you can see the ISS. Explain to me how that's not proof enough? Is NASA somehow streaming some animated video to your telescope?