make villager eggs spawn children

I would just like to say this.
Since baby entities are always loaded no matter what. If all baby villagers are spawned then you get more lag. That is my 3 cents.

also take into account the fact that even if you get a rare trade randomly the first try, you only have 15 uses of it before its gone. imagine if you only got 15 shears out of a sheep before you had to do something to reshear them?

I on average only get 6 maybe 7 trades per villager, never 15.

i was using best case scenario since villager trading is "so unfair"

It's true that you can't compare villagers to animals or crops; they work differently, and that is by design and not a bad thing, which is why I don't buy all of these arguments about how it's okay to make villager trading easier because it's still harder than animals. That's okay! It should be harder! That's Minecraft!

It's also harder to farm mushrooms than wheat, for example, but nobody thinks we should make mushroom farming easier on EMC just because wheat farming is easy. They're different, and that's okay. Likewise, egging adult villagers is an EMC change that makes villager trading way easier than it was meant to be, and there's no good reason for that. Aikar even pointed out that it was an oversight; they intentionally made animal eggs spawn baby animals to prevent exactly this kind of abuse. The fact that they forgot to do it for villagers was an accident.

And I sort of agree with you about comparing EMC to vanilla, because EMC is not vanilla and that's okay too. But I think the key point is that EMC is different in very carefully chosen ways, and all of those differences serve a specific purpose to make the server better for everyone. The town world lets people build stuff safe from griefers without having the entire wilderness be full of terribad ugly but invulnerable structures like other servers. The entity limits let the server keep up with the load so it's not super laggy like other servers. And so on, they all have a purpose. Egging adult villagers just to immediately re-spawn them with different trades does not serve a good purpose, it just makes villager trading too easy, and that's all.

If we're going to make things easy just because they're usually hard and we like them easy, then why stop there? Just make it a creative server and be done with it. But for anyone who enjoys having to work for things, I don't understand why they would support an EMC modification that made something easier for no other purpose than to make it easier.

As Pab10s said and I agree, comparing villagers to animals is not a valid argument to me. They are different, they are supposed to be different. If you think villager trading should be a sure easy thing just like shearing sheep, then you must also think that EMC should change diamond to spawn in huge veins just like coal, because diamond should be just like coal, right?

You're alone on this pointless argument I'm afraid taleden, EMC players like it as it is. I would hardly call it easier personally, you have to stand around for 25 minutes egging and un-egging a villager to get barely anything.

thats just it though, it isnt making it easier. its still astronomically more difficult then it could be.

what you are talking about not only makes it considerably harder for no reason other then to make it considerably harder for you but it also renders many peoples villager trading posts ineffective. the adverse of your statement is just as true as the inverse

Of course it's easier, unless you're comparing it to animals which is not a valid comparison, for the same reason that diamond vs coal ore veins is not a valid comparison. That means the only thing to compare it to is Minecraft the way Minecraft was originally designed, in which case it is clearly much much easier on EMC.

And I don't mind that you prefer it the way it is, you can prefer whatever you want; I don't even mind if I'm in the minority about this, although I might not be if you could actually poll all players and ask them "should trading with villagers be way easier than in regular Minecraft?" rather than just the 3 of you posting in this thread. I'm just debating the arguments you're offering so that we can get to the root of *why* you prefer it the way it is, because it *is* easier, and you like it easier, so I'm interested in understanding why you like for this one thing to be easier but you don't also want everything else to be easier at which point let's just go Creative.

More difficult than it *could* be? Sure, it *could* be a creative server where nothing is the least bit difficult at all. Nobody wants that, even you, I'm sure.

More difficult than it *should* be? No, I disagree there. EMC has already (accidentally) taken the step of making it much easier than vanilla Minecraft, and I'm only suggesting that we take a step back toward normal.

you are arguing a tentative statement, it isnt easier, otherwise we wouldnt be able to egg villager at all, this simply cuts down on waiting time by a considerable margin doe to villager reproduction without an infinite villager spawner being ludicrously slower then the other breedable things within minecraft. that is why it is comparable to animals, because like it or not it is still "breeding" just a harder more complicated and space taking venture in itself.

the phrase why fix what aint broke comes to mind at this point though i hate using it simply because it too (like your argument) is tentative

the only step emc made that isnt arguing against all egging is that if you do get your hands on a villager egg you dont need to wait the 25plus minutes to begin working on getting the trades you want. arguing that this is like creative is nonsensical, because in creative there is no rupee system that you had to purchase them originally with and you can simply spawn as many as you want other then a defined value that you purchased and expect to work the way it has on this server since the rules were put into place

When villager trading was first introduced (in 1.2 or 1.3 or whatever it was), I seem to remember players suggesting it should be disabled or at least reined in, as it would destroy the prices of things like glowstone. So taleden is hardly "alone in this pointless argument ", just because EMC has got used to the current status quo.

I agree that villager trading is too easy currently (although I have done it myself, so I know that it isn't as easy as it sounds). When combined with eggification, it provides an easy(er) way to get items that are hard(er) to get in the conventional way (such as glowstone). Mojang certainly didn't intend this, although I understand/agree that that alone doesn't make it a bad thing. Running around the nether for glowstone is quite tricky, especially with the 1.5 ghasts, so it seems a pity for there to be a simple (if tedious) way to gather it through villagers and eggification, for example.

This "bug fix" won't make it impossible to use villager trading, it will just make it equivalent difficulty to the intended way to get the materials, in my opinion.

http://empireminecraft.com/threads/poll-make-villager-eggs-spawn-baby-villagers.23636/

It actually is possible. Call it a glitch or not, but all you have to do is right click a villager with an egg and it will spawn a baby villager.

What you do is you spawn a villager egg, then right click it with another villager egg, and it will spawn a baby villager.

Yes it is easier than vanilla Minecraft, and easier than it would be on EMC if we didn't have egging. We have egging because people need a way to store animals without making the server lag, but having the eggs produce fully-grown villagers has the side effect of making villager trading way easier than it is in vanilla Minecraft. That's what I'm suggesting we change, because there's no good reason for it.

Yes, which is exactly why EMC's villager egg behavior makes villager trading easier, which you just claimed was not true in the previous sentence.

Yes, villagers breed differently than animals; diamond also spawns differently than coal, and that's how it's supposed to be. Villagers are *supposed* to breed differently than animals, which is why I don't buy any argument that compares villagers to animals and says they should work the same way. They should *not* work the same way, just like diamond and coal are different, just like mushrooms and wheat are different.

You're right, why fix what ain't broke -- except that I think this *is* broken, and needs fixing.

Yes, and that change in turn makes villager trading much easier than it should be, and that's why we should change it back. You're *supposed* to have to wait 20 minutes for a child to grow up before you can trade with them, otherwise vanilla Minecraft would let you trade with child villagers, but it doesn't and that's intentional. EMC broke that design because eggs let you turn children instantly into adults; we should fix it.

I'm comparing it to creative because every counter argument I've seen so far in this thread boils down to "I prefer that it's easier", and I'm countering that argument by pointing out that if you just like things to be easier, why not play creative? But if you like to play survival because easy is less fun for you, then why make this one thing easier for no reason? Just deal with it being a bit of a challenge, that's the point of the game after all.

When trading was first introduced, there were a lot of Glowstone auctions. People were putting up huge Cane farms to support trading. It was crazy. Once trading was nerfed so you could do at most 7 trades, most of that disappeared. When Aikar modified the Villager activation range, it hurt large scale breeding too.

I'm curious as to who has commented here has actually traded for a large quantity of anything from Villagers since these changes? I can say that prior to the nerfs I had traded for a double chest of Glowstone and bred several stacks of Villagers for an Iron farm, but even then that was all I had the stomach for. Now I don't even bother with them. If you ask me, the proposed change would take something that is hardly worth bothering with as it is and make it completely useless for anything more than a novelty.

I traded for all of these after the update that nerfed trading down to 7 trades:
http://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-enchanted-books-double-chest.19418/

It was painfully dull, but probably easier than sitting at a grinder for a similar amount of time, especially factoring in finding and building the grinder, and the unpredictability a grinder gives you.

Has anyone ever thought that maybe Mojangs intended changes to the game arent what people want? I dont mean to be harsh Aikar, but serve the people of the server that you are a great admin for, dont serve the game creators. Im all for the performance increases (as long as things arent nerfed too bad), but the combination of your performance increases and changing things like this to vanilla is creating a new kind of lag. No, not a server or client performance lag, but a lag in which it takes things longer to do due mainly to shorter ranges. For me, i traded when i would wait for other things on my res to complete. While villagers are a little over powered right now, i think we need a little of that here and there to compensate for a lot of the performance changes (which arent bad, just inconvenient). There is a major area of economics that completely relates to practically everything else. It deals with marginal social cost, and marginal social benefit. You should only go through with a plan if the benefit is greater than or equal to the cost. This specific villager issue seems to have a much larger social cost than social benefit.

I really hope that this does not get put into affect. I didn't have time to read this whole thread, so I may be echoing something already said. But, villager trading is not easy. I have recently built a sugar cane farm to do it, and it takes me hours and hours of re-eggifying villagers to get the right trades. It is just as time consuming as actually going to the nether and getting glowstone, and instead of spending money/time to get armor and equipement for a nether trip I spent time building a giant sugar cane farm. And while this is truly not vanilla, EMC is vanilla w/ sprinkles, and this is one of my favorite sprinkles.