make villager eggs spawn children

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box Archives' started by taleden, Apr 2, 2013.

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  1. http://track.empire.us/issue/EMC-67
    :/:/:/
  2. Why do people keep talking about villager breeders? What does that have to do with anything?

    Theres 2 seperate tasks here: the concept of breeding villagers - this proposed change doesnt mess with that... Breeding already spawns babies...

    then theres the concept of getting rare trades.

    Even with this change, its still not that much different -- You take your stack of eggs, you spawn them, if its not the right "profession" for the trade you want, you egg it and respawn it till it is...which is what you do already right?

    You can then have an entire stack of the profession you want.

    By the time your done placing them all, your first ones are likely becoming adults now, so you can check their trade, egg and repeat if its not right.

    so really, the "mass scale villager trading post" would not be impacted much, but still ensures villagers are not really abused by constantly egging.

    Rare trades should be rare...

    As the OP said above, EMC changes stuff that makes sense, but we don't want unintentional changes to vanilla behavior...

    This change isnt really going to majorly nerf trading, it just edges it back closer to vanilla...

    As said before, this was really an overlook. Villagers SHOULD have been made a baby on spawn when they were added.

    But, no-one pointed it out to us that it wasn't the case and that it was being 'abused' until now...
    What if someone found a mechanic we overlooked that let you 'create' diamonds... And then tons of players used it but didn't really "make us aware".

    In the concept of diamonds being created due to overlooked updates, some would be screaming cheaters. Villagers just sound harmless compared to 'creating diamonds'.

    The proper course of action is to patch the overlook, and go on with business, and the players who were accustomed to using the unintentional mechanism need to realize they got an easier ride than they were suppose to, and should be thankful of that, but the easy ride is now over.

    Look at it with a plus side -- your trades will be worth more for those who do it on large scale -- this change would impact people who don't spend as much time in it than it does the larger scale people, as you can simply use the strategy I mentioned above.

    This change makes it so one person cant spend 5 minutes doing what you took 3 hours to do as easy...
    dandandondo likes this.
  3. going to re-iterate a point since my post was a wall of text so its clearly seen:

    Major traders should be happy with this:
    • If your doing this in large scale, by the time your done laying out a large amount of villagers, your first ones will likely be an adult already. This means you will likely not even be impacted -- Spam egg until a villager matches the profession you desire to get the item you want. By time your done placing 64 of a single profession, there should be adults now... If its not the desired profession, rinse and repeat... Its pretty much same strategy as before.
    • the small time traders who just do it randomly "for the fun of it" will not be able to get the same rewards "luckily" as you are with no time effort spent as they do today.
    • This means your trades are worth more money, making you more money for close to the same time commitment.
    • This means less competitors...
    So our end result is large scale traders make more money with minimal changes to what your already doing, and were closer to vanilla mechanics, and less competition, more fair play.
  4. So if it's nearly identical Aikar, why bother changing it? This change has been in EMC for nearly a year and nobody's had problems with it.
  5. All I can think at the moment is "Always has to be one person to ruin it for everyone."

    This will now mean that we would have to place, wait, come back, if they don't have the trade we want, we'll have to re-eggify and then do it all over again. This doesn't even SOUND like it's worth the effort. :(. Guess I'll have to go try to find a grinder that hasn't been griefed to even get exp anymore.
    jacob5089 and cddm95ace like this.
  6. this isnt helping the economy this is just making villager trading worthless, glad i never bothered with it in the first place, now i am even less enthused to do so
    jacob5089 and PandasEatRamen like this.
  7. I said its nearly identical to the big time traders.

    Here's a scenario:

    Player A is using 3 stacks of villagers to find a nice trade, spends 30 minutes and gets 2-4 nice trades.
    Player B uses a single egg sitting still, gets one in 3 minutes. Burns it out with trading and gets another within 30 minutes.

    Player B feels he did not spend much work at all to obtain said trade, sells item cheap.
    Player A sees player B selling cheap, and feels that price is not worth the amount of work they put in
    Player A's item never sells because B undervalued the item.

    The other scenario is that A would then undercut B, and be unhappy with the amount they are receiving, but in the end lowered the price of that item on the global scale.

    B also received close to the same rewards as A, with less work.

    -----

    with proposed change:
    Player A spawns 3 stacks of villager eggs, and they are turning to adults before they are done placing them all
    Player A gets back to the start of the spawns, replaces a few then finds 4 rare trade in 30 mins of work.

    Player B has single egg, places it. Player B has to wait 15-20 min for it to grow to see the trade, potentially getting one, potentially not.

    ----------------

    Now -- what is so wrong with the rewards scaling to the amount of effort put in?

    In vanilla, if a player was to organize villagers into a breeder, the more villagers they had, the better trading they would get, but a person working with a single villager would not get much.

    This makes perfect sense to me, and really the big traders should be happy as you would be able to curb competition and get more money for your work...
  8. And the idea of changing something from vanilla to reduce the amount of work you have to put into to obtain rewards simply does not fit on a survival server... that is creative mode style gameplay.

    survival servers are about effort for reward, creative is about skipping the effort/spending minimal effort to get reward...
  9. The problem is, not a lot of people are going to want to put in a ton of effort. Some people only spawn one villager as it is due to not wanting to deal with 30+. And at the same time, nearly 1/2 the server are kids who will just complain their villager takes too long to grow up like they already do with cows and sheep.
    penfoldex likes this.
  10. in vanilla there arent entity limits, so a breeder can be seriously effective with 100 villagers, you are entirely less then likely to get a single decent trade and now that 100 villager crap trades just took you 20 minutes
    edit: additionally where before you could find a good one with 20ish villagers and still have other animals on your res (assuming you are a normal member and only have one res) you now have to make more just to find that decent trade thus making those of us with more then one res have ANOTHER advantage over normal members
  11. Oh, three stacks! Why didn't you say so before.
    Joshposh70, Pab10S and PandasEatRamen like this.
  12. Oh dang, if we need 3 I guess I need to google villager spawners.
  13. Does this have anything to do with AlexChance in his quest for world domination?
  14. Just some example numbers....

    We will not be doing this just yet, will re-discuss it down the line.
  15. I'm not going to feel bad for pointing out an exploit, no matter how many people have been abusing it, or for how long, or how much you like abusing it. I'm also not going to feel bad that you have to go out into the wilderness to get experience -- that's how it's supposed to work. If you want to use a grinder for that, build one. This! is! Minecraft! after all.

    I also find it ironic that one group is whining that I proposed a change to bring EMC more in line with vanilla even though I do enjoy some of EMC's variations from vanilla, such as town, while another group is simultaneously whining that I proposed a change that will make it marginally harder to sit in town and gather resources and XP with no risk and minimal effort.
  16. Minecraft, not GRINDcraft. EMC is not Vanilla. Of course you're going to have people mad about this. In my case the only way I was able to get EXP was trading for bottles because every grinder I know of or find is already owned or has been griefed. You've pretty much killed villager trading and prices of stuff are gonna go up and we'll all have to deal with people getting mad they can't afford things or they don't want to make the effort to go get stuff. We have enough of that already.
  17. Comparing a minor detail of a game mechanic that we have accepted as normal for months to abusing an exploit is laughable.

    Just make the change and those who are unhappy with it can move on to "abusing" other things for their amusement.
  18. Like a lot of people are saying this will kill villager trading small and large scale. Wanna know why? Because there are people sitting at grinders enchanting books. So if you think prices will change they wont. Combining low lvl books now to get the high lvl enchants is possible.... so with that said book grinders can now get sharp V and smite V with ease. Sharp 5 and other high end books were just with villagers so now that the book grinders can combine that hurt us traders. Go ahead just finish us off with this kind of update.
    PandasEatRamen likes this.
  19. I think you know how hugely you're exaggerating the effect of this change. As Aikar rightly pointed out, large-scale villager trading operations are not really going to be affected at all. Villager eggs are not going to go away, and villager trading is not going to go away. The only thing that would go away is being able to stand in one spot and chuck the same egg a hundred times in a row in order to choose whatever trade you want, which is dumb anyway. But if you're already managing dozens of villagers for trading, you will only have to adapt your process a little bit and you probably won't see much effect.
  20. Now we'll just have to stand in the same spot and throw 3 stacks of eggs 100's of times for no apparent reason.
    PandasEatRamen likes this.
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