Discussion. "Pay to win" issues...

From other thread:

There isn't any object to win, it's not meant in the literal sense. You can 'win' by buying items that some can't. That's what the saying is meaning. Buying ruppes was a 'pay to win'. It's an advantage. Doesn't make it a bad or good one, it just is what it is.

Alrighty didn't see this til AFTER I moved to PM to Raaynn so I'm just gonna copy directly from there (Yes it is directed towards Raaynn here and may be a little harsh, but it's not intended to be a personal attack on Raaynn)

Now I'm going to be honest. I have a problem with your mindset in this game. You've purchased vouchers with money, and flipped them for rupees, putting you in a place in the economy you don't necessarily deserve. "Pay To Win" as a phrase is used to define anything on a game that allows a player to pay for something using real money to either

A.) Give them an advantage in the game
B.) Allow them to get something anyone can get without working for it

What you are doing is buying bulk vouchers, and reselling them, giving you rupees, however since you didn't WORK for those rupees, you simply pressed "buy" and then made a post on the forums, you are "Paying" to "Win". You're buying high end items without having to farm, craft, build, or sell to get the funds for, and since you can always just go back to the shop and buy more vouchers, you seem willing to spend MORE on items, not only screwing with their prices but also screwing with voucher prices. You have a lot of influence on the economy, which is unfortunate, because you don't deserve to be there. I don't dislike you as a person, I just have a serious problem with your method of acquiring rupees and other high end items that plenty of people will never even touch.

But it's not an advantage because their paying for those with rupees that they've worked for, they worked to get the vouchers, but you didn't. Also, the advantage is rupees. People with more rupees will always be more influential, not only on the younger audience of EMC who seem to follow anyone with enough money, but also on the economy, as I stated in the above message.

Pretend that word 'win' doesn't exist. Anything you buy instead of obtaining in game is an advantage. You are not winning anything, that is just the saying. It's also not a bad thing. Some can be bad advantages. But what we have on EMC, I personally don't see anything wrong. It's still an advantage though.

tbh he worked harder than we did, as I assume he used having a job to get those rupees, so, in that way, he's still worked for them.

I personally do, however at this point they've finished their discussing it with Mojang and they managed to stay up so it's not like I can change it. I mean I may have sent in like 50 reports but that's out of the question at this point

This video game and the real life are 2 absolutely different realms, so he may work for that money in real life, but he doesn't work for what he gets in the game. Look at Cue. He's a pretty young kid, and he doesn't have a job, but he has more money than alot of people do. He's a nice guy, but he'e not even "working for that" as you said in real life.

I'll phrase it differently: I don't like that method of obtaining ruppes but I don't care enough about it to worry. I've made a ton of money here and I worked for it. I think I bought ruppes once as a backup for an auction. Other then that it's been made from selling. On the flip side I don't have ill feeling towards those that do it either. Even if I had the money to do it I wouldn't because it's not worth it for me. Real money for digital items is just not for me. (And to be clear this isn't about not supporting the server. I've done that by buying vouchers for personal use.)

(Point 1) Going back to what I said earlier, you definitely have worked hard in real life to acquire that cash, however these are 2 totally separate realms, it's like comparing apples and oranges, what you do in the real world should not be reflective of what you get in the "world" of EMC. A garbageman and a movie star should be 2 equals on here, but if one is willing to spend money they aren't, which to me doesn't feel like that's what gaming should be about. Of course, all gaming will forever be pay to win, simply because if you have a nicer PC you will be able to run games better than a hunk of junk, but why should we extend that?

(Point 2) I'm gonna go root through your auction history and bring in some points here in a moment, but that'll take a bit and I'd like to post this then edit it in later.

(Point 3) You definitely aren't wrong, but it just feels like dirty cash to me

Yah I have purchased vouchers several times, but those were always for personal use, never sold em. I do a lot of buying cheap vouchers and flipping them for more, but never originally using USD to acquire them. Shell actually made a pretty good point awhile back, and it took me a while to actually agree with it, and I did argue with him about it at first, but he said that by buying vouchers, I am, in a way, spending money on the Empire, so I've actually stopped buying vouchers altogether, because if I were to purchase a voucher from Raaynn, I'm showing that there is a market for these things, and in a way, encouraging the continuation of it.

Think of it like a mobile game. It's a free game to play but they all have micro transactions that improve your game. Thus giving you an advantage. That's where the saying 'pay to win' comes from. Again it has nothing to do with winning anything or even goals.

You buying vouchers, which you sell for ruppes, is your 'advantage' because as you mentioned, you don't have time to obtaining the ruppes in game. This doesn't make you a bad person or your method wrong. It's a micro transaction. How others feel about this method is there own opinion and in all honesty, their issue.

Well personally I don't play enough anymore to accomplish this goal, but if I stayed active all the way up until now (and didn't get banned for something) I'd certainly be there by now, and that's to collect all items intentionally available through /promo. This account may not look old but I've been on this server for nearly 5 years, so the promos give me a sense of nostalgia back to the better days of EMC. That's my goal, but no matter what, the basis of this server is economy, so obtaining rupees is the main focus. What you do with those is up to you, but either way, since you are paying for those rupees, it's not something you earned working in-game, so it's paying to "win"

Yes, because that's something you put the time into the server to get to.

I really fail to see the problem as well.

Yes, I can see that if you buy vouchers and then sell them in-game you're getting rupees, which you can then use to further your goals. I get that part.

But to me this is pretty much the same as one player going to Sushi drop to get tons of guardian drops in order to make the prismarine blocks themselves versus a player who goes out into the waste to mine all these blocks themselves. I simply add another versus: a player who finds a shop to purchase all these blocks themselves. To me it's all the same; different means leading to the same goal(s).

In the end I'd rather describe it as "play your way" instead of "pay to win".

Buying vouchers and reselling them is the only way for some people to make money, people who don't have time to build a mall, or giant mega farms. It's as valid a way of gaining money as anything else. You aren't ever "winning" anything, you are helping others on the server by providing an item they may not be able to afford with real life money, and you are making money to do your own thing on the server. I have no issue with this. Except when people brag about all their money from buying and selling vouchers with irl money, then it's an issue.

Can we get one thing clear here. No one said it's wrong to do this, no one said it's a problem or no one is bad for doing it. Some have said they don't care for it and that's their right to think that.

Psst, the title is "Pay to win issues", so we are stating whether we have an issue with it =D