what you are doing there is in my opinion more "dirty cash" then what raaynn is doing buying stuff from peeps cheap to then sell for more is kinda like scamming someone and that way you also "earn rupees" while almost doing nothing. there will Always be a market for these things since this is the only way to get extra resses. i also think it's not a bad thing to buy them using rupees. there are a lot of people who want to support emc but are just unable to do so with real money. by making them buy-able with rupees you let others support emc and make it for them possible to have multiple resses i do understand why you don't like this but i also understand why it is the way it is
Uh huh. But when you post publicly an opinion.. and many do so with a slant that it is "incorrect" to do such a thing... againt persons or person that does said thing.... then it is opening up that opinion to be cross reviewed publically... ie this debate..
But that's not playing. That's paying, hence why it's pay to win. Playing would be getting those blocks or rupees yourself by playing the game. Paying is not. Ok so we aren't on a roleplay server. When I say the the real world and EMC are 2 different "realms" I'm not saying this is like a Sheriff Eli type of situation. Opinions are still relevant. But what I try to say when they should not "combine" is that your physical wealth and your virtual wealth should not be reflective of each other. I'm not saying if you poor you can't be poor in-game, I'm saying if you've got money, you should just get to use that for money in-game. And either way you keep saying your goals are different, but I can get proof of you buying rare items at high prices in auctions, so you obviously do care about acquiring high-rarity items on some level, and you pay real money to get them. Edit : Information to support the argument above https://empireminecraft.com/threads...f-taste-the-freedom.72469/page-2#post-1342877 https://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-unused-pot-of-gold.72351/page-2#post-1340536 https://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-dc-of-liberty-swords.72286/page-3#post-1339818 https://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-a-dc-of-heads-staff-ex-staff-heads.72167/#post-1336906 https://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-a-dc-of-heads-staff-head.71924/page-2#post-1330174 https://empireminecraft.com/threads...m-2-stable-vouchers.71569/page-3#post-1322837 https://empireminecraft.com/threads/auction-unused-saltar.69378/page-2 All of these auctions are high rarity items, most of which are EMC specific and can not be used to "build" with, so saying the only reason you buy the money is so you can build and not have to collect all of the blocks/materials yourself would not be true. I also remember you paying for a Tales of Eternia, which is one of the rarest items. Not trying to be rude, I'm just saying you aren't be 100% honest here. So you're telling me everyone who owns a mall is a scammer if they don't collect each item by themselves since they bought it cheaper than they sold it? Resell is arguably the largest money making method in this game, and I'd call you a liar if you told me you've never done it. Yah I'm not saying it's incorrect to do it, I just think it's an unfair method of doing things. But EVERYTHING I've posted on this thread is open for feedback, and that feedback will likely receive a response from me as a counter, like you said, it's a debate.
I absolutely agree with Raaynn. If he wants to buy vouchers and sell them for rupees let him be. You guys that are arguing his valid points are privliged with plenty of free time whereas he's busy with everyday life. So Id politely say lett Raaynn do as he wishes. Too bad too sad of he has an "unfair advantage". He could argue that people who spend 8 hours a day on EMC is an unfair advantage but that would just sound rediculous.
I wouldn't say I have any negative feelings towards you or players like you per se, but I have refrained from bidding on promo auctions I've seen you bidding on because I am aware you essentially buy rupees and can therefore win the auction a lot easier than I can.
I am not saying mall owners are scammers. Just part of an economy. But what I do brings New money into the economy yrt without being competition for the malls. In fact my method of play likely goes to benefit mall owners more than any other players... as the majority of the money I have gotten from selling vouchers is in turn spent buying blocks at the shops... therby injecting money into the economy that would not have been there... therby enriching the mall owners who then have more money in order to but more whatever it is they are after (ie promos or other) And yes... i do buy/ sell some small number of food items at my ship.. not that i think it would be taking much away from the economy... But buying and selling still takes income away from smaller players who are not able to compete and sell their items at market value.... thats life. In ANY world.
And why exactly does this sound ridiculous... being a fact... Aside from the additional point which those with buy/sell signs dont need to spend the time online either...
Oh yah definitely, I see an auction that's a rare item (Ex. Tales of Eternia or an Unused Saltar that went up a few months ago). I knew I had the money to win it, and I was willing to pay above market, but I knew you'd have more, and if you didn't have enough you could go buy it, so I wouldn't have had a chance there.
This part is paying, sure. But what follows after they obtained the blocks? Most people buy blocks to build. And all of a sudden they're playing again
That post was not directed to you, sorry I didn't specify that I put a quote from Allicanto in the middle of the quotes of you, sorry But what I'm saying is that they're skipping the grind by just paying, THAT'S the part that isn't fair. If you want to play video games but don't want to have to grind anything, then casual games are gonna be a much better option
So you would buy the promos with money you earned from your mall... all of which you earned from other players which never bought vouchers or rupees which may have enriched you far more than possible had that option never existed...
Some people just dont get that without the reselling of voucher's there would be no empire. I have never directly given the empire a penny. I do however with rupees encourage others to do that for me. I have made millions of rupees, just bragging. But seriously, when you are jealous of your neighbor, that's when you've lost. Its just an illusion that your neighbor has won.
The idea of someone trying to say that it's unfair for someone to be online for 8 hours is what I was saying was ridiculous.
There is a huge flaw in this logic. Let's first state that 99.9999% of other Minecraft Servers (everyone that uses Buycraft or the like), allows reselling of supporting perks for in game money (By allowing you to type in the name of the player you are buying the perk/item for). The difference with ours? We ensure players do not get scammed in the trade. When a player buys a voucher and sells it, they are TRADING it. The "Wealth" is simply relocated to another player. Rupees were not created out of thin air as it was with rupee purchases. It also allows people to acquire supporter who do not have the financial means to obtain it IRL. This is no different than players or staff holding drop parties, or players giving their friends valuable items. What do you think happens when a new player joins to play with their friend and their friend is super rich? The friend loads them up with rupees and items. This is 100% the same thing as the selling of vouchers. If we did not allow voucher selling, then players would still be able to make personal agreements of "Hey, if you buy me Diamond, I will give you 300k rupees." The only difference is that by allowing it the way we do, it creates a more controlled process (shop signs, /trade, etc). If the selling of vouchers bothers you, then it should also bother you when anyone gives you money or items for nothing in return. Then you enter even crazier territories, "The standard rate for item X is 10 rupees, but you sold it to a shop for 15 rupees each, you didn't earn that extra 5 rupees!" Then there is the other view that you are "Paying to win" with rupees buying other items. "You didn't EARN that promo, you bought it! Elite players get them /promo!". For many, promo displays are their demonstration of how long they've played EMC. Not just "I had enough rupees to buy them" See how silly this is? EMC is built on various play styles, and using 1 form of play style to acquire the resources for another. Rupees are not the core of EMC gameplay. Every veteran player with lots of rupees will agree, that you hit a point that having more rupees doesn't even gain you anything. If you don't like how our economy operates, then you do not need to participate.
Interesting discussion, reading through it I would like to make a few points: 1) Buying low and selling high is scamming or dirty cash. - No, that is an important part of any economy. 2) Game and real life are two completely seperate things. - No, they have one very important thing in common. Time. Real life time. If I spend one hour working, I cannot spend the same hour playing the game. Everyone has to decide how much time he/she wants to spend on working, EMC, sleeping and all other activities. But because we make our decision, it doesn't mean we cannot remedy the lack of time for one activity by using resources obtained by a different one. 3) Selling vouchers injects money in the economy. - No, it doesn't. It moves money from one pocket to another. 4) Selling vouchers and buying items in auctions and in shops drives the economy. - Not really, because the people who bought those vouchers would most likely spend them in auctions and shops if they didn't have the option to buy vouchers. 4) This way of playing increases the prices. - No, it doesn't. I could go into detail why it doesn't, but I try to keep it simple. If someone buys a voucher, the seller will get money he wouldn't otherwise have, but if it wasn't possible, the money would still be there, just in the hands of the buyer. The buyer wants the voucher the most, that is why he buys it, but if he cannot, he will buy the thing he wants second the most, which might just be the promo item you wanted and you would have lost the auction anyway. But you cannot see this without seeing the alternative reality, where vouchers cannot be sold. You have to think about it. 5) Physical wealth and virtual wealth should not be reflective of each other. - Where is that written? This is not an argument, this is a personal opinion, which is fine, but it shouldn't be used as any form of argument.
I never said anything about thinking that's chill, so you mentioning it is absolutely irrelevant as a counter argument Once again, I never stated that they were being magically created, so it's not supportive in a counter to me Definitely not the same thing though. With a drop party, that's someone doing something just to be kind and to celebrate something. People are not PAYING real money to attend these drop parties so that they may leave with more than they came with. They're free to enter. The vouchers are not an "out of the kindness of my heart" type of deal. They are a, "I'd like rupees and can't/won't work for it, so let me use my credit card to buy them". Well for one, I hate people "donating" stuff to me. I have, on 2 occasions that I recall, requested for donations, each was to increase the prize pool for a party, not to benefit myself, and each was a whopping failure. You're taking a personal opinion, and blowing it up into this extremist belief. You can't say "Well if you believe that we shouldn't have government healthcare then you MUST believe that everyone needs to die from cancer and doctors should be eradicated", because that isn't what it means, it's far too extreme from what the original belief is. I don't agree with you, and I'm a veteran player. There is a very limited number of players who have, and ever will, hit the point of "I have so much money I don't need it anymore". MoeMacZap is definitely one of the richest people on this server, yet look at him. He's stilling bidding on auctions, still building malls, still doing projects, even if he has money. So no, I bet every veteran player will not agree with you. I hear things like this from you a lot. Not the best method of acquiring players, if you ask me.
i'm wondering something do you have any alt account (i think you have) isn't it completely the same as all you are saying an "unfair" advantage you get rupees with them and extra resses now if i'm correct and you have alts, then you are against something you are doing yourself
Point 4) So you're telling me if Player A has 50mil and decides he wants to buy an item worth 2 mil, but he's too lazy to actually go to the shop to buy it, so instead decides to pay 5 mil for it, that won't increase the price? That's not true. I've watched similar things happen. Let's, for example, look at AlexChance a few years back. Let's assume the OreBuster value used to be 400k (I don't remember the price when he started doing this but it's an example and it did happen). Alex started buying them for more than that. Once they went to 450k, he started buying at 500k, people saw this and decided if he'd buy at that price, they must be worth it. He single-handedly drove 60k gear up to incredibly high prices, but since he was so rich he could do it, now you look at Orebusters, they aren't that price anymore because large amounts were re-introduced into the game at the 100k (I believe) event. Now, let's pretend that the Orebusters were items going up in an auction, AlexChance is a player buying vouchers, and The Orebusters are diamond vouchers. The vouchers are being introduced into the economy at a semi-fast rate, and the voucher prices are down from what they used to be. I remember when Diamond Vouchers were right around 420k if you bought from Todd Vinton, and that price wasn't too bad. They're not anymore. So these players are gaining large amounts of cash, allowing them to buy up rares that are auctioned off. If Raaynn truly wanted to, he could drive the price up for quite a bit of rare items, simply because he has the money and the influence to do so. Point 5) It's not written anywhere. This entire argument is about a personal opinion, so saying "since that isn't written anywhere it should be used in your argument" essentially would mean all opinion-based arguments are invalid, which would be a ridiculous claim and invalidate a majority of religions and political parties Yah I do, actually, and this isn't a bad point to invalidate my argument, but I didn't buy these specifically for this server. I use them a lot for more than one thing, and the rupees I get from this are relatively obsolete. I'm talking 100 rupees per month when I log in to stop derelict protection, so I'm not intentionally using these to acquire more money.
