[POLICY UPDATE] IP Bans and the Forums

For those of you who are against this due to having a friend who is IP banned, can you actually prove that your friend has not been disruptive or provocative? And yes, you can be both of those but still within the rules. Names and examples of purely community-positive behavior are appreciated.

If you can't, then you already know that your friend is a reason why this should be in place. Arguing with reasons not applicable is manipulative in nature, and those on the receiving end usually realize that.

You are pretty much saying "Hey! Player A hasn't been disrupting things so why should they be banned from the site?! Also, Player B (who has clearly been disruptive and provocative) is my friend and I want them to be able to use the site as well."

The community hasn't allowed it. What you've been doing is sitting idly by waiting for someone that is IP banned to post something you don't like so you can go "Yeah we've been planning this for a while, but it just actually needed to be relevant".

Okay, what?
You can't know that at all. Especially not the intention.

Too far gone emotionally? Why would I be emotional about this. I actually don't like this policy, I'm not doing this because "my frwiend got ip baned but cant get on forums no more oh noez!". No. I'm stating my opinion, telling me that I don't understand logic, basically calling me stupid. Is that really necessary?

Look at what happened right before this post. A player posts a thread about suggestions, this player is IP banned. Then this policy is introduced and it's "Been under discussion" for a while. If it's been under discussion, why has nothing been done about this when other IP banned players have caused trouble on the forums?

ok, well i think this fact isnt implicitly obvious to the average forum user. most of us dont pay attention to the average ip ban, its usually the foxies and enfells of the world we are exposed to. so in truth this post shed some light on the people we arent exposed to who are performing duplicitous actions under our very noses.

And I think that's a very wise choice.

My signature, my statuses, they are defending Foxy because YOU were highly rude on his thread. The reason I agree with it for new ip bans is called compromise. I'm not saying I like the idea. The reason I don't want it for OLD IP bans, is for people who have already been IP banned, but are now refused access, this is for people like Cory who have been IP banned for a long time, but now get removed.

Hey sorry - this isn't gonna be very polite....

I don't often chime in, but I will tell you from an "outsiders" point of view that EMC appears to be degrading at a steady pace. . . So much disunity and petty bickering. I've been here quite awhile, I wish I had the old EMC back.

Not to be all "gloomy doomy" but EMC will devolve into an echo chamber before you know it.

Sorry again - just my 2 cents.

Yup - unfortunately.
But I think that happens to every community - either that or they die out.
It's not that most people do it, though, just a few consistent ones out there (and I'm afraid I'm sometimes one of them, keeping the logic but forgetting the fun).

Quite frankly, I'm a little ashamed at the way players are reacting to this. It's understandable those IP banned are upset, however, as Krysyy has said innumerable times, you must have done something pretty awful to earn yourself one. And as Krysyy has said as well, you may appeal said ban. And until you can show respect for the rules, changes as well, as well as properly apologizing or showing understanding of the rule you have broken, you have earned yourself your punishment and must accept the full consequences.

Also, pro tip for those with banned friends they talk to on the forums: talk through a different platform. Steam, Facebook, Snapchat, Skype, there's plenty of other platforms to chat on. It's not like you'll never see them again. Push comes to shove, email or text. There's always another way.

As far as IP banned players causing disruptions, they do. For example, the players protesting this seem to be players that are either banned themselves, or close to someone who was banned.

And this? This is very, very true. Whether you think it is or not, it is. I know several players who, if they see this, very well will stop talking to me for at least a long while. I know players that vehemently rail on Krysyy for every small thing she does. And I stay quiet because I don't want to deal with their mouth.

I find it extremely saddening that the community thinks Krysyy sits behind her keyboard going, "Hmm, I'm going to scour the forums today for any misdeed and see what players I can punish or make up rules about." Firstly, I don't think any moderator, of any level, would find this fun. You don't enjoy banning or removing people from your game, especially a community-based one. That hurts your community. The goal of this game's creators is to entice more into the community, and have it grow and be fruitful. Why do you think voting has such rewards? Secondly, if Krysyy has been community manager for all this time, and remains such, she is clearly doing something correct. I don't see why players want to sit back and pick at every little thing she does. On a tangential note, I think this is because after a while, players forget that behind that purple name is a human being, and they have a general distaste for people in power.

This is exactly what I was talking about above. I'm not sure what loony moderators, of any privilege, you have been around in your time, but I assure you - Krysyy is by far not one of the moderators who do this. Go play on a factions server for a few hours, and see if you can even get a moderator to notice you, let alone help you if you need it - and god forbid you try to have them converse with you. I've heard Krysyy on countless occasions say that her inbox is open, and she's always willing to explain herself (to those that are willing to listen, anyway). Also, nobody is sitting around and waiting for FoxyRavenger to post so they can rail on him. He just so happens to be a common face when it comes to this problem, and I'm certain this problem was relevant before then. It may just not always be so public, but for those involved it can stir all kinds of otherworldly drama that doesn't belong in this game.

As for the actual change that is posted here - I think it's a good one. Looking at it from the majority standpoint, most IP bans are for players that don't care if they break the rules, and their intent is to maliciously harm the community. IP bans are already evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and with only ~160 or so IP bans out of 400,000+ total members, clearly these players have done something egregious and deserve their punishment. If you can't handle yourself in the community on the server, what's different about your involvement on the forums? Also, most other servers, once you're banned in-game, you're banned from many privileges on the forums as well. I don't see why EMC should be any different on that topic.

And RunderK - the way you worded that message makes it sound like you want all currently IP banned members to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, but that all future IP bans should be banned on the forums without investigation. I implore you to explain why this makes any sense at all.

Most IP banned players are more than likely nasty and here only to cause problems. Or, in some cases, are immature and don't see a reason to change. These players are toxic in a community. Again, go play on a factions server, where the community is geared towards violence and intimidation. You'll see that it is amazing what EMC does, and why it is so vital players like this are kept out. This isn't to say all IP banned players are terrible, and for those that aren't or think they aren't, they will still have access to that appeal page.

And if you can't submit an appeal that is accepted, then you aren't ready. It's that simple. I've never seen a team of staff as involved or caring as Empire Minecraft's, and I am ashamed that many well-known faces of the community think that they intentionally go out of their way to harm players and are unfair. There are much worse staff teams out there, and if you really need to stay in contact with your IP banned friend... as I said above. There are other methods of communication. Steam, Facebook, Skype, Snapchat, texting, and any other website that allows online communication could suffice.... just saying.

I've been on this server for roughly a year and a half now, and I've never met a staff team or server that equates to the community EMC has to offer. I've not really seen a change yet that has truly damaged the community. EMC seems to have steadily grown and grown, it was growing before I got here, and it continues to grow now. I don't see why we are so distrustful of our moderators and their decisions - they are doing this because they are certain it will benefit us.

More rewards = more votes = more players = more potential ip bans, duh.
Kidding aside: Thank you for your post! Quite thoughtful, and very well-written!

Alright, you want me to explain?

The current policy says that they should all go, I'm half agreeing. I'm also saying that people who just suddenly gets hit with this out of the blue, a change to something that has been the same for since IP banning existed, get a bit more of attention, I'm not saying "Uh don't do this it's stupid" I'm saying, give the ones who have been IP'd before this policy a "chance" if you will, or a look-over before straight up saying nope we no longer want you.

This is why I like you, you didn't call someone with separate opinions degrading.

What Krysyy said there was she ran the list through some analysis to see which of them is forum banned, not at all relating to my point of checking the ones which AREN'T.

Hmm. I see the logic here, I think. What you are saying is that players that were IP banned before this came about should be considered more thoughtfully because they have had time since their ban, and were here long before the policy's implementation, right? The issue I see with implementing this is drawing out the firmness of the punishment. It makes it seem more permeable, if you will, like it's not a real threat, which sets a precedent that makes the rule appear silly to even exist at all. It also sets the idea that an older player is more deserving of a newer player, which is just a natural human feeling for players that have played a server for a longer period of time. However, that doesn't quite make it right, in my opinion.

Also, I would like to say that I don't come into these discussions with the intent of saying "this guy's wrong, that guy's wrong, that guy over in the corner is DEFINITELY wrong, everyone listen to me." I like to discuss it because it wouldn't be the first time someone has changed my mind through a thoughtful discussion.