[DEBATE] Presidential Election - 2016 (closing Nov 22)

I think this is a fallacy. Raise taxes then what? Someone uproots their family and business then moves? To do the same business with the same customers from outside of the country? It's likely they send a donation to their congressman and the tax never happens in the first place.

The reality is that the very rich make their money from money. They can do it from anywhere and employ hardly anyone regardless of what taxes they pay. Those who employ people have been steadily eliminating workers through automation and will continue to happen regardless of the tax rate.

Please, do YOUR research. Their is still a possible 66 investments still outstanding from the banking debacle. Some did not make interest.

The Auto Industry bailout. Ford did not take a bailout. It might have saved a bunch of jobs but look at all the recalls right after the bail out. They should have had to pay a penalty or something because they just expected to be helped. just because a business goes under the government should hold its hand? That is not the Governments job. Everyone forgets we want les of the government in our lives not more government bail out and regulation and whatever.

Yes, I voted for Trump. It was a vote to keep Hillary out of the White house. Last time she was there when she left she stole 200,000 dollars worth of stuff that had to be retrieved. Stuff she "Whoops, must have not noticed that.". I think Trump will at least stop many of these programs that are bleeding the budget. I also am against the right to have an abortion in the 9th month. I saw a picture of a baby from a C-section still in the embriotic fluid seal in the sack lifted from the mother and sitting on the mothers stomach just waiting to be let out to start breathing. That child could be aborted under Hillarys rules because it was not born yet. I think trump is going to wake people up. I think Trump is going to run America like a business. I think all the people who wa nt to push the limits of working the programs are going to be upset the most.

I think Trump is going to take away the free corn.

I am glad he did not just run in and yank obama care, although the end is near for it. It was wrong from the start. Now no one can afford it and you are fined if you dont have insurance. lol People are protesting for a minimum wage of $15.00 per hour. Please tell me you are smart enough to know that this is the worst thing that could ever happen. A minimum wage job is for someone without experience or a job that is entry level or a job for a teenager. It is not meant to raise a family and kids on. You need to get a new job, you need new skills, you need think about it. if min. wage is $15 the economy will just raise to meet it and you will be in the same place just playing with bigger numbers. possibly poorer.

Me, I gott no health care needs to worry about. I am covered. That is one benefit when you put your but on the line for Uncle Sam and something does happen. I got full coverage cause I am a club member.

This paragraph is the epitome of everything wrong with conservatism. Whether you're meant to live off minimum wage or not, doesn't change the fact that people do. And most of these people can't help it. You can't just tell people to get a job, because there just aren't enough jobs to go around. Some of these people suffer from mental illnesses and so won't be employed whether they want to be or not.

Let me tell you something; as much as you wish to believe, people are not inherently lazy. Some are more lazy than others, but there's very few people who just can't be bothered to get a job. And tell me, how are these people going to get new skills when they have no money, either because they're on minimum wage, or because they're unemployed?

I think it's a good idea to manage government somewhat like a business, but unlike a business, a government is required to have to have a social conscience. Because, at the end of the day they don't report to investors, they report to the people. And the people don't demand profits, they demand to be looked after. They demand to be protected, to have roads built for them, to be saved from disease and poverty.

Everything a government does is a fine balancing act, and you can not lean to far to either side, because otherwise the system becomes too uneven and stops functioning.

One of Bernie's best ideas, and something America needs desperately, more socialism.

Something that most uneducated Americans repeatedly confuse for communism... :\

To be honest though, Bernie's idea's probably lean a bit too far to the left. Things like college degrees shouldn't be handed out for free, because that'll lead to a situation were no one stands out. Here in Australia, we still have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for university degrees, yet you're no more employable than the person next to you.

From the point of view of much of the western world, the Democratic party seems to already have it sorted in terms of a general balance between left and right-leaning policies.

A little bit of extra socialism can't hurt; a bit more of capitalism will...

I hate to weigh in on politics, because of course everyone has their own viewpoint, especially on such a divisive election as this one. But I will say this - at the beginning of the election I completely supported Hillary and I liked Bernie even more and wouldn't think of how anyone could vote for Trump. I did think he was like Hitler, wanting to get rid of Muslims and Mexicans and who knows who else. But then one day I said to myself that this isn't fair to me or anyone to judge a person based on a few things they've said. And I started listening to his speeches, and hearing his arguments, and hearing everything he was saying. And I mean everything. I honestly was up for hours listening and it was fascinating. Obviously, he has views I can't agree with, like point-blank banning an entire religion from a country, and of course he's made mistakes. But he has a heck of a lot of good points that are so braindead obvious once they're said. Like, why announce 4 months in advance when you plan to attack a city? Why would you make laws/regulations so that only one health insurance provider can serve an area? Why are there politicians and not business people negotiating trade deals?

Now don't get me wrong, Hillary would have made a great candidate. But the fact is, in 4 or 8 years she will still make the same great candidate. The fact that everyone came so finger-thin close to electing her as the first female president says a huge amount about gender equality in America. But the reality is, Hillary coasted into a last minute defeat. She relaxed. Her final ad before the election was a boring talking face. Trump's was a vibrant picture of everything he promised for America. Trump and Pence marched through twice as many states on the day before the election. Trump worked hard for his victory, while Hillary just sat back and expected hers.

And, especially now, I think Trump will be a great candidate. Because, so many people don't believe in him especially. Just like how nobody took him seriously at the beginning, just like how there were times nobody wanted to back him over and over as the republican nominee, just like how nobody thought he could win, let alone as spectacularly as he did. See, because Trump can and will do whatever it takes to build his great legacy for himself and for America. I'm not going to tell you that there wont be mistakes, that he's going to do what everyone wants or what you think is the right thing that should be done, but I will tell you with confidence, he's going to approach a lot of government issues in a way that they've never been approached before, he's going to shake a lot of things up, and he's not going to give up.

If there's one thing this election has done that nobody can dispute, it's created amazing discussions. Discussions that need to happen. On racism. On religious freedom. On how a whole huge portion of Americans as so disconnected, so neglected, that they weren't even considered in the polls. That's because what nobody realizes is that America is not just New York City and Los Angeles and Chicago and Seattle and Miami. It's a lot of little towns too. It's a lot of places you've never even heard of or been, and likely never will ever be. If you wanted to know who voted for Trump - it's those people, all over, everywhere, who nobody even thinks about.

Well I never thought I'd ever end up supporting Trump, but the fact is I was excited to see him win. And I don't think anything is going to be nearly as bad as anyone fears. I don't think that America can be broken. I think if anything, Americans are resilient and America is going to be a whole lot better off, even with the mistakes. And well, it's done and over with now. All we can do is wait and see.

You went through that whole thing and never answered my question. Yes, I understand it is important to you that other people don't get things and you believe Trump will put the screws on other people. Don't let women have choice over their bodies, don't give food to people when they are down on their luck, don't make it so the working poor can get a livable wage. And I totally agree with you that Trump will put the screws on people other than the rich. But I asked what he would do for YOU? Do you feel that by him making life more difficult for others that is doing something for you? Is that the real point in Trump's campaign? Intolerance? Is it just that we have become an intolerant society?

Germany has free university degrees. They continue to pump out excellent minds and have an unemployment rate of just an ever-decreasing 4.2% - the United Kingdom has one of 5.5%, France has one of 10.5%. Clearly, the higher (disgustingly higher to the point of totally unaffordable for the UK) tuition fees in those countries aren't making people more employable.

Plus, the university degrees aren't just 'handed out' for free - you can go do them for free, yes, but you still have to pass.

Can we stop a minute to just realize that Flint Michigan still does NOT have clean water. A judge ruled that they need to get bottled water deliveries and the Governor of Michigan is appealing that it's too expensive while he gives tax cuts to the top 1%. SAD. A city in the United States does not have clean water, that's pathetic. This corruption is everywhere, we need to rebuild this government.

I'm sure there's a middle ground policy between not having water and a government program that probably pays ~$10/bottle.

I saw that too. It is very sad. Rick Snyder, the governor, is a republican. More states went with republican governors this election to I believe a total of 32 out of 50. That is the way people want it. As Acemox2k put it "I think Trump will take away the free corn". To republicans this is free corn. Businesses can pollute and when the poor are hurt the businesses are not held responsible and then when it falls to the government to help they claim they don't have the resources. Americans are an intolerant uncaring people. Only caring about our own selfish greed. And I don't see it getting any better any time soon.

I gotta disagree on why the Republicans won everything. There was a democratic super majority back in Obamas first term, they could've passed any liberal thing they wanted to. They could've passed a single payer system but since they don't know how to play politics and are afraid, we got an individual mandate which was a right wing reform. The Republicans fought against their own ideas so many times and even caused a government shutdown. You might think that Republicans would mess with single payer now. Except that's not true, it would be a huge success that people both on the left and right would be like "Woah, don't touch that" like on Medicare and Social Security. Republicans won this because nothing improved, if at all, not because they are all selfish. Of course, some of them are those selfish dumbasses, but to characterize them all as that is unfair as most are frustrated with the disasters of neoliberalism.

Ok i hope my pots aare not all messing up the page.

- --Good for them. If they can figure out how to live on a no skill required to get, entry level job then well done. If they think that being given more money for that same no skill, entry level job is an answer to their economic problem then they are mistaken.

I probably cant explain this as well as an economics major but i know this, it wont work. Lets say minimum wage has been raised on Bob's Burger Stand. Bob has 10 employees. 5 work am shift and 5 work pm shift. minimum wage goes up from $8 per hour to $15 per hour. Currently, the highest paid worker at Bobs Burger Stand is Moe. Moe has been with bob for 10 years and is making $14.00 per hour. The lowest paid is Sue at $8 who just started last month and really is not figuring out how the job goes. BUT SUDDENLY! Everyone is making $15 per hour. Now bob looks at his labor cost and yanks that schedule off the wall and goes in the office and closes the door. Bob now realizes he cant afford to keep 5 workers on per shift and he does not want to fire anyone. Only 2 people per shift can now work to try to keep cost in order and throw in a food cost increase on the menu. For a business owner this will not be good and will not lead to more jobs. Not to mention Moe who worked long and hard to get to $14 and it was just handed to someone who does not even know what they are doing.

Why don't they just cut out the middle man (bob) and drive down the street handing out a fresh stack of money to everyone to get us all back on track. Because it wont work! I know our dollar is already a lie. I have treasury notes that will give the bearer on demand blah blah blah not worth the paper, actual the paper is worth more lol

It used to be a gold standard, where the money was backed by gold. I have no idea when that stopped and I am not even going to look it up. All that means is we are going to make the dollar worth less.

As far as telling people to get a job???? Someone needs to tell them? Wel... ok, Go get a job. Personally I thought their parents told them thats where money comes from.

If there truly are no jobs, I know how to free up a few million real quick. Lets go get the illegal immigrants and take them out of the job that they are doing. Anyone who says they dont want to do that job does not need the money and has no right to complain. I was having hard times and got a job on the back of a garbage truck for about a year till I got a new plan. I have shoveled horse stalls. I started off as a dish washer in a restaurant and made it to manager at a restaurant in times square. I joined the Army and had my 42ND birthday at Fort Jackson in boot camp. (they had raised the age limit and I went for it) If they are in a place where there are no jobs, my advice is to go to the jobs or as Americans always do, create your job. Dont sit and wait, make it happen.

Let me tell you something; as much as you wish to believe, people are not inherently lazy. Some are more lazy than others, but there's very few people who just can't be bothered to get a job. And tell me, how are these people going to get new skills when they have no money, either because they're on minimum wage, or because they're unemployed?

New skills are easy to get. As i mentioned above, I started as a dishwasher. I started doing some prep work. Soon I took over more prep work and still did my dish job. Next I started watching the cooks. I saw what they did while still doing all my work. Soon I got a chance to step up to help on the line when it got busy. Now they knew I could cook, I got a couple shifts cooking. The point is, I saw a job and knew I could do it better and I set out to take that job. I had no college at this point. I was just determined. I climbed the ladder because I wanted that job more than anyone else. Thats how i try to approach life. You know you can also work for free in some places to get skills. The internet has lots of youtube information. Then there is a place call a library with large tech books that tell all kinds of things.

But first, we could get rid of the illegal workers in our country and then our unemployed could work, right?
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Yes, Its a good idea at this time for the government to operate like a business and at this time I think there needs to be a lbit more access between the people and the government. I think its not so much looked over as making sure we are secure from outside influence. To allow the states to function as they should and not get bound in federal involvement.

What you wrote about wanting the Government in their lives protectin, fixing roads, ect... I find that amusing because its so true. People Want the government to provide the perfect life for them. I should have a house, job, food, health care, protection, entertainment devices, transportation and I dont even know what else has been given or demanded at times. Our Government is not our care taker, it should be a much smaller role in our lives.

Why does gold have value? It had no intrinsic value. It has value similarly to why a dollar bill has value, because people say it does.

I am very aware of the dilemma regarding increasing the minimum wage. Yes, if it is forced up by the government the business has three possible options. Employ fewer people and expect a higher level of productivity from the remaining, increase the price of the good or service, or decrease profits so the owner(s) will receive less compensation. The last option is obviously the worst option to the owner/decision maker of a business entity. So, probably it would end up being a combination of the first two. There would be some degree of inflation and the unemployment rate would increase. Many studies show it is the youngest workers that would suffer the most. High school or college students that are looking for part time jobs. So, I tend to agree with you. It is too much meddling with the free market system to legislate that all business must pay a livable wage. A person's compensation should be tied to their value/productivity/contribution to the success of the business entity. There I go back to where I believe, we as a society need to invest more into education so that overall productivity increases, more of our citizens are able to make a livable wage, and in the end there is more tax revenue and less dependence on social programs. It really is the way to go.

What do I hope Trump will do for us?

Illegal immigrants needs to be addressed. Its easy to say that they pay taxes... They pay sales tax, hah got me there. and with a fake social security number they can have their earnings garnished like everyone else ( How many dependents did they check? You know if you check 9 you get your whole check with virtually nothing taken out. WOW) So with my fake social security number and my 9 hungry fake social security numbers at home, This just might work. Now if I am brave enough to go get food stamps for my 9 hungry little fake social security numbers and a section 8 house that all my friends can live in as well. Now I am making lots of money and living the democratic dream .

Back to something serious though, the criminal element. If an American is of the violent sort and commits a crime, he can be sent to jail and there he will stay for the most part. Illegal immigrants caught by ICE are released by sanctuary cities back on the streets. In Obamas watch, things have been bad.

http://cis.org/Immigration-Enforcement-Deportations-Decline-2016

These statistics reveal an alarming deterioration in immigration enforcement. The economic, social, and public safety consequences of this nullification of immigration law will surely be a lamentable legacy of the Obama administration.

In 2014, the Obama administration aligned itself with anti-enforcement legal activists and, in a significant departure from decades of practice and the language of federal regulations, declared that local law enforcement agencies would have the choice to accept or refuse ICE detainers, or immigration holds. Detainers are the main way ICE is able to take custody of illegal aliens who have been arrested and/or incarcerated. Sanctuary jurisdictions typically refuse to comply with ICE detainers and instead release criminal aliens back to the streets,

http://cis.org/vaughan/How-Trumps-Plan-to-Deport-Criminal-Illegal-Aliens-Would-Work

Trump's enforcement approach is not only reasonable, it is very feasible, and will address the most disastrous failings of the Obama administration's faux-enforcement regime, which brought interior deportations to a 10-year low and caused the release of tens of thousands of criminal aliens back to our communities to reoffend, instead of back to their homelands.

I had a friend from Dominican Republic. He went through the process to become an American citizen. It made him so upset to see people "cheat". He said " I did The right way. The way the rules say to do and now I see people sneak into the country, cry a tear and get to be a citizen. " Its true, He had to pay money, wait in lines, memorize information. Sit and worry and wonder if he would make it. Now people just get handed a green card (almost this easy) and told "Welcome, good luck, move along." He was very mad about that subject

not done hit post by accident lol but i will take a break

i did see yor new post and yes education is key. I just believe that minimum wage jobs are there for kids, first jobs and that sort. its not a carrer move. you got to start at the bottom somewhere. cant jump in at the top or middle.

I thought it would be interesting to look at the faces of NA for 2017 now that we know Trump is the president. So here we have it, the 3 faces of North America.

Justin Trudeau - Canada

Donald Trump - America

Enrique Peña Nieto - Mexico

Those are the leaders in North America. If you ask me they all seem pretty happy.

Wow, where did you get a picture of Trump where he ACTUALLY looks well-rested? Whenever I see him on the news, he has these horrible bags under his eyes. (I hope he gets all the rest he needs, he'll need it if he's going to lead America.)

I think that picture is about ten years old.

I think you're right, he does look significantly younger now that you mention that.