Why farms?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by M4ster_M1ner, Feb 15, 2016.

?

Farms?

Yay 27 vote(s) 90.0%
Too easy 1 vote(s) 3.3%
Too hard 0 vote(s) 0.0%
Nay 2 vote(s) 6.7%
  1. Stuff. More stuff. And cheap. :)

    But you also need to consider this

    You make best friends ever when you work together on a complicated project.
    A good farm isn't easy to make, and as you have already experienced - it is a risky investment.

    Challenge.
    When you play a great sandbox game like Minecraft, you always look for the next challenge. Getting a team together and building a big farm is a wonderful challenge. Don't just repeat designs you find on youtube. Make your own, improve, adapt.

    Than building accompanying facilities, storage systems, sorters, transport systems. Solving numerous problems. Making everything well designed, functional and nice looking.

    And then the joy to see it work.
    And the moment you think of the next improvement.

    Hunting Blizz Ards, Super Turkeys and Minibosses is all very nice and fun.
    But building a complex farm with a team beats all of that 100 times.

    Of course I enjoy exploring, mining, running my shop and participating in the economy, but for me, without complex designs and farms E(MC) wouldn't be half of what it was during last 3 years.

    What do we need?
    Challenges!
    And not easy, trivial ones.
  2. I don't think anyone challenges or doubts the importance of farms. Fact of the matter is that farms also help the economy as a whole. For example: the DC quantities in the auctions, a lot of that stuff has been accomplished by using a farm. This allows smaller shop holders (such as myself) to sometimes buy stuff in bulk and sell it again. Of course I don't make quick money, but I still make (relatively) easy money. It just takes a little longer.

    I'm pretty sure that farms play a big role in that.
    M4ster_M1ner, JesusPower2 and ToddV like this.
  3. Ever since I began looking at Minecraft on YouTube, I've been into making farms in the game. I still find joy in building them from time to time.

    I think a key turning point for me was in early 2014 when Mojang attempted to effectively "nerf" iron and gold farms. If you haven't dealt with it, basically Mojang thought that there was too much automation in Minecraft. But when they did so, lots of people were infuriated. So, those changes were quickly reverted.

    Why I call that period of early 1.8 snapshots a turning point is because I got me to think more critically: how does a mob farm work? What's going on in Minecraft's code? And onward.

    I think still to this day, farms in Minecraft are a very valuable aspect of the game:

    Not only they provide items, they also express creativity in the community and can teach and/or strengthen life skills/concepts.

    Innovation
    Dedication
    Critical Thinking
    Creativity
    Trial and Error
    etc. . .

    Try seeing the processes yourself, like from my latest Enderman Farm on SMP8.

    http://empireminecraft.com/threads/ender-builders-campaign-for-enderman-farms.52358/
  4. But none of the farms on SMP8 are AFK farms. Except Peps iron farm at the beginning, all of them have to have you doing something. Sushi Drop you have to run around and collect the stuff, all the grinders you have to hit the mobs, even Fe(II) you have to kill the golems yourself.
    So what is so wrong with this method? Why must everyonr want to build something that they just sit there and get stuff? Is it just me or is there no fun in that. Like I said last night on SMP8, we are in the middle of a 'now' generation. People want to build these huge, time consuming contraptions, but they want what comes from it now with no recourse.
    I know how much it takes to build a farm, I built my own iron farm by myself the first time, and I helped build Fe(II). My first Iron farm is an afk one, and personally I don't like it as much as Fe(II) I like having to click something to do it, not let the game do everything for me.
    Then again this is my own opinion, and I'm sure some people are going to decide to disect it and try to counter argue every little thing I said, but oh well, that's the internet.
    You guys say that this isn't a 'french vanilla' server anymore, but you remember it says economy server on that banner too. So from my perception is that you guys would rather have farms that you can go and AFK at for hours on end, or until the server kicks you rather than have a server that is trying to have a stable economy? Because you can't have both. Unless you want things that can't be farmed to skyrocket in price.
    It's unfair that everyone jumps down Aikars throat right at the first sign of change instead of playing with it for a little bit and then deciding how you like it. Plus it gives you a chance to explore different options and changes that may make your farms more efficient(I honestly don't know kinda spitballing there)
    Personally I applaud Aikar for everything he has done for this server, as well as Krysyy and the other mods. When I came back I was skeptical about it still, but all the new group functions, the bonuses you get from them and everything are fantastic.
    And remember this game is called Minecraft, not AFKcraft...

    /rantover
  5. I can't wait for the day when these threads stop. This is such a small issue yet everyone has become so immature about it. Just be glad you HAVE this server to play on with friends
    ShelLuser, HxCami10 and TromboneSteve like this.
  6. +1
    Seanawesome14 and TromboneSteve like this.
  7. Dat unanimous poll doe.
    Dufne and ShrinkingMatt like this.
  8. How can I not like this thread!
    khixan likes this.
  9. Well, as a community, I think we need to have discussions like these every once in awhile. Reevaluate what we truly want here. Most of the changes made to EMC are made for the playerbase, so the community should be allowed to give feedback and discuss what they'd like to see.

    'Course, I'm not saying that these discussions should be as overblown and heated as they are now…
    TomvanWijnen, khixan and ESSELEM like this.
  10. But that's the problem most of these threads start as normal discussions, but then people turn it into a staff hate flame war. If we could just get along these threads would actually help us, not cause problems.
  11. I perfectly understand one every now and again, but so far we are up to what, 4? 5? That's excessive.
  12. I don't see why you guys are calling this a discussion, it's just a player talking about how he likes to play, that simple.
    I don't like to use afk farms all the time myself, but of course I know their importance. All players benefit from cheap items, from the people who sell them in bulk to me buying them from shops when I need them.
    If farms aren't your thing then don't build them, that's fine too. But no matter what your playing style is, at some point or another you'll benefit from these farms, and you owe that to the people who spent their time building them.
    M4ster_M1ner and khixan like this.
  13. Let's not forget that many amazing structures that decorate the town worlds of EMC would straight up not be possible without farms and the absence of them would leave only buildings that don't require lots of time-consuming (at least traditionally) to gather materials to exist.

    If you appreciate any of the many skyscrapers that pack the server full of beautiful creations, chances are the thing that you're looking at would be nothing more than thin air or cobblestone without farms.

    That being said, I care not to discuss this matter anymore. It's clear that higher-ups don't see the vast importance of farms as being instrumental in bringing creative ideas to life and I doubt any more threads about it will change their minds. They're set in stone and if we think we're going to change it, we're wasting our time.

    The antics of whether or not farms should be supported is a dead horse that needs not be beaten any further, however, feel free to discuss anything else related to this :)
    Nickblockmaster and PenguinDJ like this.
  14. Fighting words. Who are you fighting against? I haven't seen anyone pushing the idea of a farmless EMC. If you can figure out who they are, we can join hands with our "higher-ups" and declare victory over them.
    M4ster_M1ner likes this.
  15. Well said! I can't build things that are beautiful. But I can build things that are functional. This is huge part of my enjoyment of the game.

    I'm very grateful to EMC for being so permissive over the types of farms and their scale.
    Rhythmically, M4ster_M1ner and Pab10S like this.
  16. Khixan makes Public Farms(you know the smp8 ones, but she hates afk) both ways you can get a DC of iron, by waiting X time for IG's to fill up and then sword them, or to have a time limited of of IG's which obligates players to b active.

    Smp8 public wild utilities, the stuff khi is referring to, has all the stuff you mentioned. smp8 members come help build for the community, so it creates a by community for community factor which fortifies our connection with each other. and guess what, we meet more people than our regular friends whom which we play daily with!!! We also make complex designs and mod it ourself to fit the no AFK system and for it to be mostly antigriefable and secure. While doing these event/contribution we do have fun as boss hunting.

    Smp8 public wild utilities also provides storage for dozens of players who want to lock chest in many different facilities and provides a rail system which connects every single section of the utilities.

    And the smp8 public wild utilities don't really focus on personal gain as it is not afk-able, it is for fast supply, so we aren't greedy. We also supply the economy the community a chance to compete with mass producers as we have made the farms for them.

    EDIT: to answer your questions to engineer a public farm is less easy to create a private farm, as every player needs counts towards efficiency of farm
  17. I want to bring up that building farms is challenging, fun, friendship making and educative.

    The idea to profit from a farm is very human and it is a driving aspect that helps a team come together. Industrial revolution, mass production, get stuff easy. All very human.

    Synergy - that a team is going to accomplish much more than the sum of what each individual can do alone is another important aspect.

    Another big thing is that all of this strongly relates to RL and that if people accept challenges, turn on their gray matter and communicate while playing together, then while playing and having fun they learn important skills and collect experiences for RL.

    Afk
    You're right that going afk is not really playing - it is more like providing power for the farm to work.

    After a farm and everything around it has been built, do I just sit afk? Is it game over?
    No. I'm up for the next challenge.

    Consider also farms and contraptions that do not need an afk player in vicinity. We have many such farms on EMC.

    Also shops: "build a shop and profit from it while you are logged off / sleeping" ... where did I see that? :)
    What kind of "playing" is that?

    Economy aspect
    This is not so, and yes, you can have both:
    Building efficient farms does change the economy, it makes getting some items easy and therefore makes that items cheap. But this does not destabilize economy!

    Easy to make -> cheap. The value follows the needed effort.

    In MC / EMC, there is just one things needed to have stable economy: Do not try to "fix" it.

    One more thing is needed to also have a thriving economy: free and convenient trade. This implies stable currency, and that means no high inflation.

    (IRL, it is important to regulate economy and the market, but on EMC no one is going to be scrupulously exploited, pushed to margins or starved to death.)

    Socio-economical aspect
    Are new and inexperienced players "poor" compared to teams with big farms?
    What is the best we can do for them to have fun and good time on EMC?
    My opinion: provide possibilities and challenges - and not restrict them!
    Also: pay them good price for their effort and not give them stuff cheap or for free.

    This is by no means the intention of this thread.
    I actually support Aikar in the decision to turn off Pigmen dropping xp if not attacked.
    (And I do co-own a farm that can (could) operate in this mode.)