A thread (or discussion via another method) like this has popped up nearly every year. This idea is nothing new, but it will never die. The idea that players are leaving because of rudeness and being bullied is incorrect. Players primarily leave because they are bored. Those people you used to talk to at firefloor? Yup, they most likely got bored of EMC and/or firefloor. The idea that if we circulate more likes that people will be friendlier is just as correct as thinking that if Aikar gave everyone 500k we would all be happier. It may work short term, but then all that happens is it loses its value tremendously. Bullying is actively moderated and taken care of on EMC. If you think you witness bullying, report it. Often times, people think that bullying is opinion based. It is not. It has a definition and defined standards. That post that doesn't agree with you? Not necessarily bullying. The staff are very active. Just because you don't see them in game doesn't mean they aren't active. They have tools that aren't in game that are often times more useful that being in game. What makes staff life difficult and not productive is this idea that staff don't do their job. As soon as this idea starts circulating, then players stop doing their part in using /report. Staff can't work off of no leads. The staff also don't need to be active all the time, it is ok for them to take breaks and enjoy some time on EMC. If it was a requirement that all staff stay at a 95% activity level, we wouldn't have many staff here. What needs to end now is the idea that one's views are always correct. I disagree with how staff handle situations, but I recognize that that is because I have differing opinions on the rules. There are people here that I would have gotten rid of very early on based off of their manipulative personalities, most likely the same players you think people are "bullying." Some of these people do nothing but make excuses and scream victim whenever they are held to their commitments. Then, when due justice makes it their way, their little pity crew comes along and tries to shame any and everyone who didn't do anything but hold them to a low standard. I believe in second, even third chances. But I don't have sympathy for those who do nothing but try to deflect blame on to others.
Very well written, completely agreed on all of your post, but wanted to pick on a part of the last paragraph that I've quoted here. As much as there may be people with manipulative personalities, as you say, there are chances for those people, and we want them to learn rather than ban them straight off the bat. EMC should be fun and everyone is welcome to play and enjoy, and for those that play up, we have to be more lenient sometimes. We don't want everyone to think that we are out to get them, because we understand people make mistakes, and so on, every now and then. What I wanted to ask, is how would you say you disagree with how staff handle situations? Is there anything that I, or any of the other staff team could do better do handle situations, or is it just the way that EMC is run but you'd have it differently if you were running it? I'm a new staff member so I'm only learning and getting to grips with things still, coming along nicely, but it's nice to know if there's any areas I should look out for and if there's a better way I can handle things. Staff aren't perfect, we're people too, but I'm always willing to learn if there's something we should be doing. Was just wondering what you meant with that last part really!
i completely agree i had girl get into a flame war about my opinion on a matter and she got mad it took 2 staff to defuse the situation
I think your post was great. I do have a comment on this which I hope you'll take in the least argumentative light... My opinion is that both things identified here can be true. The manipulation and the bullying. One does not justify the other. I feel a lack of sympathy may be creating a bias for some, whereas they perceive the bullying to be justly deserved. It never is. But again, I appreciate the thought you put into your post, and I agree with everything except perhaps your view of the motivations of others. Cheers.
Okay, after reading some messages, I regret my rage against the staff. You guys are trying your hardest, but not everyone sees your actions. I'm really sorry for raging against all you great people. I really am. But, this problem, I won't rest until it's gone. I was made fun of at old internet communities. My race, skin color, and how I spoke. That's why I came here in the beginning, everyone was so friendly. I was an enderskeleton for a reason. Even though they are my favorite mobs, they represent something special. A teleporting archer that would be unstoppable. I'm an enderman. I can 'teleport' all across the forums, watching those players I have deep hate for. You think you got away with this? Well, sooner or later, you Will be gone. I will report offensive posts and I will be watching your profile. I will report you so much, the staff will become sick of you. I'm also a skeleton. I can counter against those players and I carry the remnants of older players. I represent all of those who left. So, beware. The new enderskeleton will be watching and tracking you down. >:/
At one point we are secretly deleting threads and censoring over the top... and on the other we are non-existent and don't do our jobs, we are lazy tyrants that don't do what players want us to do. You guys gotta keep to one story. Just cause you don't see a staff member, does not mean they are not there. If you don't report things, they wont get fixed. Its just that simple. And for the whole were not punishing enough. How would you ( yes you that is reading ) like to have it. A: You get banned, for bullying, you have NO idea whats gong on, just that you had different opinions with someone, now you have a week ban cause... we are going to be strict on bullies and anyone called that ( i just want to remind people of the Simpsons show where you got arrested for being called a bully... ) bullying is SOMETIMES in the eyes of the beholder, I have seen people calling out that they are getting bullied, cause people are not agreeing with them, and telling them their own side. Or do you like scenario... B: You get a PM from a staff member, talking to you in private, where you can explain your side, and the staff can explain why this and that could be looked at like bullying? We are trained to deal with stuff in scenario B. We don't go hanging people and flagging them in public for other players entertainment, was a player punished? You wont know, cause the person in question, is really the only one really needing to know.
So what would be more interesting in my opinion is to know where that idea comes from. We can simply dismiss it but there is a solid reason why such ideas keep reappearing, and I do not believe it's merely negative talk about staff. In my opinion one part of it is inconsistency when it comes to applying the rules. Players see this happening for themselves and then they draw their own conclusions. I'm not merely saying so, I've seen this myself. At one time I came across a residence of an obviously banned player. The ban reason (seen in /p) was griefing and it made it all too obvious that this wasn't the first time it happened, roughly put: "After all these warnings you still grief". Yet despite that the ban was temporary. So a player got a temporary ban for repeated griefing. Note: I'm not debating whether that action was legit or not. It's also a moot point because last time I checked said player was derelict for a long time already. What I'm getting at is the signal this gives out. The rules say that if you grief you risk a permanent ban. And this situation shows us someone who gets temporary banned for griefing. That's inconsistent. And that's what some players are going to see and pick up on. Another part is the recent amount of banned players who started forum posts where they commented on their own experiences, and in a lot of cases they made it look as if staff wouldn't hear them out nor wouldn't give them any solid reason (or evidence) as to why they got banned. What struck me as odd in several threads was the lack of staff presence. No staff member spoke up, no one commented. I can understand that staff doesn't want to start arguments which can result in "he said, they said". But a regular player might also easily pick this up as if the staff simply didn't know how to handle that situation. I mean... If a player criticizes that "no one told me why I got banned", then surely it's not that hard for a staff member to respond with: "Ok, I'll look into that and PM you later"? But by not responding.... I think that can go either way. Then another issue (but this has been improved a lot as of late!). Staff closing / locking threads without sharing any reason for it. This is especially bad when there doesn't seem to be any violation going on in the thread itself. Once again: this has heavily improved as of late. But I think these are prime examples which give players a completely wrong impression about the way staff handles things. Especially situations where you see a player break the rules (in-game) with staff present and well, the result is not much visible because it looks as if nothing happened. I think all of those things add up to the negative impressions some players get about the staff.
As you say, not everyone can see what goes on behind the scenes. There's a lot of PMs, reasons for things that aren't public (for various reasons, depending on what it is). I'm sorry that you were made fun of, that's never a good thing, and I hope nobody makes fun of you here. Anyone that is rude to you can be reported, and any person that does that will be dealt with accordingly. Yes, please do report offensive posts/statuses. If they are breaking the rules then we as staff are here to help and enforce those rules and make sure that everyone is having fun here. As for the report so much, staff will become sick of them part, just be careful - only report a player if they are genuinely being rude/breaking a rule. If they are, we can intervene. tl;dr: report if it breaks the rules, we are here to help
You dont know if they have been temp banned following a successful appeal or not. Why don't we speak up? Again... why should we? We have a strict privacy policy towards players. We can not talk about things with other players, so posting it on forums is kind of doing that, we don't discuss peoples cases openly, we don't flaunt or hang people in public, and the reason you don't understand this, is cause you simply have not been in this situation before. Not that I want you to, but if you had been on the "bad side" you might see things in a whole different light on how things are dealt with, and tbh I like the way things are dealt with. Why even reply to the thread, when we can send the player a pm explaining, and leaving their matter from the eyes of public? Yes people are curious, but what matters most is that the player that believes he is wronged gets their situation straightened out, not a message on a forum post that satisfies curious eyes. And yet we come back to the whole... how can any staff member really know about this thread if it's not reported? Why not report a post like that to get staffs attention to it?
In a nutshell, I have left (sort of) and I find myself being incognito not really liking or responding to content. It is what I do; I just watch. To be truthful, I don't find myself rude or obnoxious but that is my opinion. I don't strive to knock down people, it is just morally wrong. Now, my reason to leaving is quite simply that I am banned and I have more troubling task that daunt on me more so than playing EMC or minecraft as a whole. I did feel very troubled on the fact seeing Kiku's thread about me bringing me back. I felt so much hate, I understood why but personally if your going to bother putting in the time to hate on someone, there is something wrong with you. I still feel ashamed that I let down the community for cheating but that is besides the point, we are dealing with the whole community not a single individual. It will be a group effort to pull through. Here is a simple quote that always betrayed what I do with everyone in real life. "Treat others the way that you would like to be treated" If you have the decency to treat others like dirt you will be treated with a plain as dirt punishment. It seems as op stated that it hasn't happened and staff has been "lacking" on proper action. I personally don't believe that is the case but if it needs to be a "Heightened security" measure to prevent players feeling harassed, I am up for it. Players deserve to feel safe in a place they call home. There is also a report button as well. That is all I got to say about that.
[quote="Dramanya, post: 1222886]snip[/quote] I do like B, but if you have had this convo, for months. One player keeps doing it and it's annoying. No punishment on that player. And I'm sorry for offending the staff team, it's just really annoying.
Sorry I didn't want to edit this in but let me go on more so on this thread, the thread was about bringing me back since I had alts that weren't banned and it seems that I was "dodging" my ban although I had written permission from Starlis (aka Kryssy). It didn't make logical sense to have a "Banned" title on my main account although everyone knew I still played. So that was the threads purpose to arise what should of logically should happen to unban me and purge my accounts. But the thread caused all sorts of chaos and "favoritism" which wasn't ideal. Then people started questioning my time and how I am using my veteran title irresponsibly and Why are you bring FNAF into that thread? Seriously why jab at my side which makes my character? Come on that wasn't a joke that was hurtful for me. Those comments need to be filtered as well as the people that create them. (Ok seriously I am done now referring to that thread and here)
Appeal or dispute I might add. But I think I do know: because if it were an appeal then their residence would have been wiped after the ban expired. But once again: this is not the point I'm trying to make here. It's not about the ban or the aftermath, its about the signal and / or impression it's giving regular players what matters here. I think you're totally missing the point. Because in this situation staff didn't even try to dispute the fact that banned players would be heard and that banned players would be presented evidence as to why they got banned. And if normal players tried to look this up themselves (see http://appeal.emc.gs/) all they get to see is "you're not banned". Something I also commented about here and which still sits on my todo list. I got distracted with the anti-grief update. Still, all I'm saying here is that in my opinion situations like those are causing the negative opinion which players form about the staff. Because in the situation above it almost looked as if staff admitted that they weren't going to give the player any more information and as if they "hid" behind the rules. And this happens more often. I recall an issue on Utopia (already resolved) where a player asked a moderator (in town chat, which wasn't the best of ideas) about his ban and the only answer he got was basically "follow the procedures". Once again: a regular player wouldn't have any way to know what those procedures are, so once again you get a situation where the staff seems to shroud themselves in mystery: rules and regulations which aren't accessible for a regular player (yet). I can respect that staff isn't really out there to win popularity contests and that you can't share specific information about players. But that's also not what I'm getting at here. I think that in some cases the staff should be more transparent in what they're doing. Because the impression of the staff who shields themselves behind the rules isn't really helping either. (edit): At least I think not. I get the impression it's one of the reasons why threads and topics like these pop up every so often.
With respect, this approach has a serious flaw. Let's apply the practice to griefing reports to illustrate? Player reports that blocks are missing from his outpost Staff has a private conversation with the accused explaining how their actions might have looked like griefing to some. --> No response is given to the reporter. --> Reporter is not even notified that the report has been investigated. Other staff see the area and say "this place looks good". Isn't it natural for players who witness/experience this to feel like griefing isn't being dealt with? Isn't it natural for them to escalate when it happens repeatedly? To them the staff are ineffective, even if staff are effective. And then the accused, who might have been warned, is going to protest from the opposite side? At minimum I think: If you warn someone about a post it needs to be deleted. If you didn't warn someone about a post, the reporter should get a note why.
ok you are talking about a thread you know of, but was this thread reported? was that thread brought to any staff's attention? what if it was not? what if this went unnoticed by staff? how could they have replied? we are simply back to the part where, you dont know cause you have not been there. here is an example of what it looks like when you enter appeal.emc.gs when you are in fact banned. https://empireminecraft.com/threads/update-appeal-system-upgrades.64336/ and when you try to log on to emc banned, you get a message to go there. who banned you, and what reason they are giving. a player login on to another account to talk to a mod in town chat, you dont know if the mod gave more information in pm's BUT i am not saying that the staff you mention did say anything, or did not. neither of us know what happened after the town chat discussion, why speculate? thats the point i am trying to make, and you dont seem to get. you just cant go on making up your mind from a tiny little chunk of a story, that is how rumors and lies spread. and i must say, we dont hide behind the rules, we go by them. the information is in your face plain and simple if you are banned, there is not much more a staff member can do than ask you to please go read it and take the steps that lay before you.
actually no .. for that i ment ONLY for forums, not for griefing. i was trying to make an example for those who wanted people to get banned for forum activities
Well, there is this rule about false reports. What is there to report if no rules are broken? Which brings me to a completely different yet still very relevant issue. The staff application says that players who appeal for staff should be decently participating in the community. That implies that it should be normal for a staff member to pick up at least some things. Especially if you keep the amount of staff members into account. I can respect that staff can't spot everything. But I am also starting to get the impression that the "report it" comment is also a bit heavily used in this thread. Because if a large part of the community did spot said thread then I cannot help consider it odd if the staff didn't. Especially considering the above. Exactly, which is precisely what I'm saying here. Sometimes staff gives out a completely wrong impression about the stuff they do. And I think that might be a point for attention.
I think what would help is if we had a pizza party. Hard to be upset when there is pizza around, am I right?!
In a way I feel like any form of reporting is equal to calling 911 - you don't do it unless there is a gun to your head. (This isn't how you should feel) I think that this is an inaccurate way of viewing it, people need to report more. It's just me and other 1000+ day old people were new to the systems, and back then I think they were *harsh* to use. So we don't use them. I remember getting an incredibly over-the-top punishment when reporting excessively or incorrectly or something. Back when I was probably reporting incorrectly. Kryssy and all the staff have done a good job at changing this, and I do admit I was an absolute idiot back then. Still am. tl;dr - some old people may not like reporting because of the past.
