The town is growing!

Discussion in 'Empire Updates' started by Krysyy, Mar 8, 2015.

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  1. I'm good with it.

    Yes, but JackBiggin's suggestion would make fewer people upset.
    Uber_Corq, Mar 9, 2015
    #101
  2. And regards to this:
    We've said very publicly (even in a in-game announcement) that max res vouchers are coming back and will be earn-able for in-game activities (tokens) combined with voting. Therefore, making them more attainable to the masses, which once again adds to the residence problem at hand.
    Krysyy, Mar 9, 2015
    #102
    crystaldragon13, EfficiencyV, M4nic_M1ner and 2 others like this.
    • I'd like to see how many people care about the shape of town. So lets have a vote. :) http://strawpoll.me/3830982. I'd also like to see how people view how the corner reses gain their worth, so lets have another: http://strawpoll.me/3831001
    • Edge people are still upset, agreed. However, I'd say corner ones have more value and are more often claimed because of their location, so lets have another strawpoll: http://strawpoll.me/3831016
    • I agree that you can't please everyone. But if an easy enough thing can please a few more, I'm all for that. :)
    NOTE: All strawpolls have been setup to attempt to prevent vote duplication. They're not perfect, but hey, they're listening. :)

    EDIT:

    Very much fair enough. Not sure I agree with it, but if they're being made more available, then yes, they have to be accounted for (although since they're presumably going to be a high price (and tokens), they're still not a huge part of it all.
    JackBiggin, Mar 9, 2015
    #103
    EfficiencyV, M4nic_M1ner and Uber_Corq like this.
  4. Sort of off and on topic: Not sure if this is private info or not, but I've always wondered something. Is it a separate map each for town, frontier & wasteland per SMP or were these things all just REALLY far apart? Like can you be in the wild and walk so far that you eventually hit town?
    ThaKloned, Mar 9, 2015
    #104
  5. Just want to go on record here and say that TTB is located at 17430 on SMP8 - the central edge residence on the east side. There were a lot of reasons I picked that spot, and being "on the edge" did play a part in that.
    I also recognize that everything said about the necessity of expansion is true, and am not going to pitch a fuss because of some new neighbors.

    So yes, I'm affected by this. I also have no problems with it.
    Kephras, Mar 9, 2015
    #105
    crystaldragon13, Silken_thread, MrsWishes and 5 others like this.
  6. Well said Kryssyjane. Though I hear JackBiggin's point of view I can't argue with Kryssy :p

    Oh and about the corner plots. Can't staff move a res for a fee? If so those players can simply transfer their res to the new corner res if they have the rupees to do so, just like anyone else would move their plot. The only issue then is if they liked their res number.
    GeistKitsune, Mar 9, 2015
    #106
  7. You might be right, but I am unsure as to why the corners are special other than being corners. They are unlikely to have good res numbers (and if they do, that won't be changing), and I don't think that having your res surrounded by plains on two sides is really going to affect residence traffic in any way, shape, or form. The residences that are next to Town Spawn are going to receive more traffic because they are next to a place where players constantly come and go, and I don't think corners are even close to being that important or commonly visited. I'm sorry if I'm out of line here, but I think these corner residences have been waaaay blown out of proportion.
    Mods have far more important things to do than to go around and remove derelict residences. The System does that already by itself, combined with players searching for specific residences. This would not be a good use of the moderators' time. And I hate to tell you this, but this is very much about people who are actively playing and people who may be actively playing in the future. The active players are the ones who care about this, not the derelicts. This affects all active members in that they will have to option to claim one of many new residences that they may sorely need.
    There are exactly 36 (excluding Utopia) corner residences out there, meaning 40 people or less will look at this negatively. On the other hand, there are 13652 non-corner residences on SMP1-SMP9. I hate to say this, but you are vastly outnumbered by people who think that this is a very positive change for the Empire. Every solution has positives and negatives, and the staff have selected the one that benefits the most people. Not everyone is going to be happy no matter what option they choose, and this is the option that will be the most well-received by the community. If your corner residence is so near and dear to your heart, you have every option to get one of the new corners. To be honest, I would think that a corner residence is even less likable, as you only have two neighbors and therefore less of a community aspect, but that could just be me. :)
    Hashhog, Mar 9, 2015
    #107
    crystaldragon13 likes this.
  8. I understand the point you are trying to make because trust me, we've gone through it. Simon suggested a circle to get rid of corners all together to get rid of the argument about corner residences completely. We aren't claiming that any one residence is more special than another. If that were the case, we'd ask permission from every residence surrounding a 120x120 res before actually using it for anything, because by your standards, these would be 'special'. We have to make decisions and yeah sometimes those decisions suck a bit, but they have to be made. I'll fall back on a previously used argument here: if we make concessions for these residence owners because they don't like that their surroundings will change, then how is it fair for us not to make concessions to the players that don't like the giant lava wall their new neighbor put up next door? If the players don't like their location anymore, then they can move just as we tell the players that are upset about their neighbors' plots.
    Krysyy, Mar 9, 2015
    #108
    crystaldragon13 and hashhog3000 like this.
  9. What gives you the right to decide what is important to people?
    Standsinlava, Mar 9, 2015
    #109
    hashhog3000 likes this.
  10. Absolutely nothing. What you care about is for you to decide, not me, but there are 13652 people who honestly couldn't care less about corner residences because they don't own one. This change benefits every one of those people, as well as some people who don't care about the corner residences even though they DO have one. This is the optimal solution for the community. As others have said, it's about keeping the maximum amount of people happy, because sadly enough, it's impossible to please everyone.
    Hashhog, Mar 9, 2015
    #110
    crystaldragon13 and ShelLuser like this.
  11. No actually, I don't consider a res next to a 120 special, because they're very rarely claimed because they're next to a 120, and even if they are, if the contents of that 120 are changed, they're still a 120. :p

    To a certain extent, I even AGREE that people are overreacting about res placement (although a free move for corner reses to a new corner res isn't something I'd be against, either).

    What this honestly feels like is an overall strange shift in priorities which will only cause more problems. I care more about the technical side, rather than the community side of all this (which yes, is against what I'm normally about). I'll probably privately send more details later... but Laggy Server + Not Enough Slots (Apparently) + Adding MORE Lag sources = Unhappy Hamster.
    JackBiggin, Mar 9, 2015
    #111
    B4DMAN5IMON, Standsinlava and hashhog3000 like this.
  12. I keep hearing arguments about the value of residences, and although I can fully understand that a residence can have a value for someone there's one thing I fail to see: where is the market for them?

    To my knowledge residences aren't being actively traded, auctioning them off on the forums seems to be against the rules, so how does one determine the value of a residence anyway?

    Although I'm trying to bring in an extra argument I'm also genuinely puzzled here. I'll be the first to admit that there are still plenty of things to learn and discover about the Empire, but if there would be an active market for residences then I can't help think that I should have seen it by now.
    ShelLuser, Mar 9, 2015
    #112
    hashhog3000 likes this.
  13. Spawn reses generally have higher traffic, so are good for shops and things for new players (and megamalls, etc). Reses around notable other ones (eg: back years ago, PThagaard's Megamall) also are high in demand due to traffic.

    Corner one's are a bit of a stranger thing. It's bragging rights mostly are far as I can tell, although certain corner reses get a better view on 3D livemap, so I can see that being a reason - plus a corner res means that you can be pretty sure you're not gonna get lavawall'd on at least 2 sides of you. :p

    Plus corner reses/side reses are less laggy, because of render distance stuff.
    JackBiggin, Mar 9, 2015
    #113
    M4nic_M1ner, ShelLuser, jkjkjk182 and 1 other person like this.
  14. Residences are sometimes sold and traded, if rarely. The main concern here isn't the value of their residences to others but rather the value to themselves. In other words, these people don't care that they could sell a corner res for x more rupees than some random central res, they care that the residence is on a corner for personal use.
    Hashhog, Mar 9, 2015
    #114
    ShelLuser and JackBiggin like this.
  15. I don't see how this has anything to do with neighbours making something you find ugly. (One of the many points of having a corner residence is that you only have 3 neighbours, instead of 8, so there's a much lower chance of having an ugly build next door.) This is about admin intervention, creating neighbours where there were none before. You can't equate the two.
    Uber_Corq, Mar 9, 2015
    #115
    00void, kevdudeman, B4DMAN5IMON and 2 others like this.
  16. The lag that is bothering the server is primarily focused on amount of loaded chunks, specifically ones with large farms etc in them. Raising residence number does not affect this either way. As stated, the next issue to tackle is the residence cap and optimizing to get more people online.
    Krysyy, Mar 9, 2015
    #116
    crystaldragon13 and ShelLuser like this.
  17. Well, the corner residence is all about neighbors, right? So think of it as if that giant empty plain is your neighbor, and you like that neighbor, but now you are getting two more adjacent neighbors that are actual players. You saying you don't like those neighbors being there is essentially equivalent with any other player saying they don't like the neighbors that were already there due to lava walls, ugly builds, etc., so yes, this is a very equal situation when thought about in the right light.
    Hashhog, Mar 9, 2015
    #117
    crystaldragon13 and ShelLuser like this.

  18. I can see people’s issues with the new changes and where I might not agree with them I still sympathize with their opinion. As the owners of these res have stated, they chose it mainly so they don’t have to look at horrific builds.
    I for one, am not a builder (I can build really nice structures if I want to, I choose not to). My town plot is used for one thing- storage. I spend most of my time in the wild/nether building farms or gathering resources to sell. You look at my current residences and all you see is chests. It isn’t pretty but that is how I chose to play. Some people prefer giant builds going to sky limit that drop my jaw when I see them, but that isn’t every player. Deal with having to view a bad build. If you want to be by yourself with amazing builds, go 100k blocks in the wild and nobody is there to bother you!
    Let’s use a real life situation shall we-
    You live in upper-class neighborhood with giant mansions and pools and luxury life all over. Down the block is “the hood”, you are not going to complain about living next to the hood because your city is run by commissioners, regulators, and even planners that make everything fit in the area they have set. They know everyone won’t be happy with it, but millions went into developing what has turned into “the hood”. They cannot just relocate these people for free because the rich upper-class people say they are living in a dirty and nasty place. They have to deal with it.
    Life is not fair, deal with it.
    Another thing is the derelict properties with only one block on them, I know people say to just reset those plots, but it is easier to add more plots. (Don’t have a real life example for this seeing that your city government can’t just infinitely expand your town… xD)

    This is just my 2 cents, I got bored in computer class and had nothing else to do. I personally think this thread should have been locked in the first place, if staff didn’t say anything about it there would be no complaining. (A real life analogy is- if you’re bleeding and you don’t know it, it probably doesn’t hurt. Once you see the blood, oh man that’s a whole different story :p)
    AmusedStew, Mar 9, 2015
    #118
    crystaldragon13, ShelLuser and hashhog3000 like this.
  19. It creates a whole extra set of reses that could have these farms on, plus adds a whole layer that can have these farms on that'll be loaded more consistently (current outer layer), due to view distance. :p

    NOTE: I'm not saying all my solutions are the best ones, or even good ones, because they're not. They're just yet another solution, and the more that are given by the community, the more chance of a decent one being found.
    JackBiggin, Mar 9, 2015
    #119
  20. Well I've been name dropped so time to step into this thread,

    Here was my suggestion, drawn in a diagrammatic form for people to better understand.



    It doesn't combat the increased lag those people on the edges will feel (having an edge res is 33% less lag than a normal plot due to not rendering everyone else's stuff)

    But it does preserve the feel of the Original Square, that has existed since the servers creation due to that nice golden road...

    The new res' would then be placed in a circle form using a circle generator (here is one for example) using the res' as each pixel. I've shown the first row of this in my diagram, can make a new one to show end result if you all request it.

    Edit as after thought: I realized that this concept does not exist in america, other than in Huge inner cities, but we in the UK have different ground usages, brownfield site, and greenbelts.

    A brownfield site is an area of scrubland (land used in the WorldWars (I feel perfectly fine using this card as the military card has already been activated) for munitions production which has post war had its buildings(factories) removed) that the council designates for development.
    Whereas a greenbelt is an area that surrounds an urban development and restricts growth. This is normally used to encourage wildlife and in large cities, is used as a way to keep trees in the area, and migration tracks open for animals to move through urban areas.

    Anyway, the area around the current town extent I have always (personally) viewed as greenbelt site, but the suggestion I put forth is one where I know these concepts will not standup in the american based server.
    B4DMAN5IMON, Mar 9, 2015
    #120
    PetuniaFigtree, crystaldragon13, EfficiencyV and 5 others like this.
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