[Suggestion] Token rewards other than mob killing.

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box Archives' started by SkareCboi, Dec 15, 2015.

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  1. So basically also plenty of activities which have the potential of earning you tokens. Mobs would include enraged mobs and optionally mini bosses. You mentioned a group; mining and such would earn tokens (but not that much). And if the group votes that would also get them tokens.

    My point is basically that the main point of the discussion is the (in)ability to claim land through tokens. Yet at this point no one knows for sure if that's actually the case. Some comment that not being able to protect land goes against the 'play your way' motto but I'm not too sure I agree with that. You can still do the things you want to do, the main issue is the attached risks. If you want more then there are some costs / efforts involved.

    On a side note: some people mentioned the Hermits and how great that is in comparison to EMC. May I note that the mentioned server also has no land protection, and (partly) because of that is invite-only? I still recall those video's where one youtuber played a trick on another by building something on or very close to their land / structure. So that comparison somewhat fails a bit.

    Since we're doing a bit of comparison: I'm also aware of servers where the only way to get any kind of land protection is to build something to the liking of the staff. Before that: no protection. Heck: no land in the wild for you to build on at all, only on the probation grounds. Obviously I am referring to a server which also has dozens of players around (otherwise it would be a bit of an unfair comparison).

    Then we have servers which work in the same way, but slightly different: you can get out in the wild you can start building something but... No protection at all but a much more stricter staff. Any time someone is found griefing then they get banned without any option to appeal or get parole or whatever. Griefing = you're out.

    Its not as if every other Minecraft server out there except EMC provides land protection. There are also dozens which do not.

    Now, that doesn't make land protection any less important than it is, don't get me wrong here, but I do think that some given comparisons aren't really fair either.
    ShelLuser, Dec 15, 2015
    #81
  2. Title says getting tokens other than mob killing
    SkareCboi, Dec 15, 2015
    #82
  3. I'm not opposed to small token boosts from large scale mining operations if the right balance is found (so its a slow trickle in) and done in a non farmable way, but for ores mainly id say.

    But to answer some Q's, future work goes like this:

    1. Work to protect placed blocks from being broken. This is a small change on top of the current system that instead of logging that someone potentially griefed, we just stop the action.

      This can be bypassed by friendship or being in same group. Maybe other limits, system will be tweaked based on needs.
    2. Empire's - Ability to register your Empire, and the foundation for membership management.
    3. Outposts - ability for an Empire to claim land in the Frontier
    On current land and being unable to protect it immediately
    If you are currently registered, no-one can 'overclaim' you. You'll be the only one who can claim your area officially. That's why we started that system, to start getting things logged on who has claimed what area.
    We will have at least 2 weeks or so of buffer time that no one can auto claim an area, and we can even look into systems for SS to 'mark' areas so that its enforced no one can claim it even after we open it up to full public

    The solo players protecting farms
    This isn't final, but it's very likely 100k +/- will be close to what the goal token cost will be.

    Current plans are initially that the HeadQuarters, the initial claim, will cover a 3x3 chunk of land. Then you can expand that by need, at a much less cost of tokens...
    This isn't unreasonable to earn from voting. Players have had a very long time to be collecting tokens. It was added early so that you could collect them.
    Additionally, It's not something I can really stop w/o compromising the goals of the system, but players can technically 'buy' tokens from other players by having them join their Empire and allocate tokens to the Empire, but staff would not 'support' this and will not handle disputes.

    Day bonuses
    Another idea I think outside of consecutive but similar, is bonuses for logging in around your certain day #. Like logging in on your 1000th day could give 10k tokens. Gone for a month and miss the period? no reward.
    Downside of this is I can see players begging to please credit them the day they missed :/

    "I shouldn't have to pay to protect my build"
    While I understand on the macro level, things are just not that simple. We can not just let everyone claim land in the Frontier, it does not scale. It would make the Frontier a giant mess of abandoned land, and make it just like every other low quality factions server.
    Our goal with Empires and Outpost claiming is for those that intend to actually have a real long term project.
    It's for people who are willing to show commitment to their Outpost.
    If you can not commit to your outpost and put in some work to show that its a serious project, then why should you have the land vs someone other group who will?

    By claiming an outpost, you are committing to developing that land to make the Frontier better.

    This has to be a fully automatic system that runs and maintains itself. And by weeding out the players who are just going to build a dirt hut then abandon it, it makes the system better for those who are going to use it correctly.
    Could you imagine trying to find land and going through a mine field of 9 chunk sections of abandoned land? It would be horrible.

    I don't have friends to help me establish it
    Then make friends! visit town, ask if anyone wants to go mining together, or PvP in a group together, or if you suck at monster slaying, team up with a stranger who's better!

    Get to know them. Make a new friend. Then once you get to know them, invite the to your Empire. Work together to earn Tokens, and officially claim the land.

    I don't want to fight MiniBosses
    Enraged also give tokens. Anyone in plain Diamond, or even Iron armor can kill an Enraged (skilled players can do it without armor).

    Dragon Tomb Group stuff
    It's off topic but wanted to say, the "Portal" aspect was changed and that part of the process is Part 3 of Dragon Tombs, and can technically be done solo by a skilled player.
    Part 3 will reward an item that enters you into the final fight with Resik (The Dragon). This item can be used anywhere and everyone in your group will enter the Tomb (and then return to where they came from when it's over). So timing and getting people organized is easy to plan for.

    What about Play Your Way
    But again, if you refuse to play with other players, then Dragon Tombs will not be something you can participate in.
    As I've said before "Play Your Way" DOES NOT mean you can play every single feature of EMC, your way. It means you can CHOOSE what features to participate in.
    If you choose to play solo, you are choosing to not participate in various elements of EMC, or choosing to make some elements harder to earn.

    More methods will come
    As we're discussing, more methods will come.... but unlikely before the Outpost claiming system is finished. We will only give tokens for achievement level objectives. So initially you may not have enough tokens, but again, griefing will be handled at that point.
    You can then either earn tokens the way provided, or wait until more methods are added and then claim once you earn enough, but we strongly suggest you expand your horizons, get some good armor, form a group and kill some monsters while mining, and voting, and then tokens will just come in.

    In summary
    Players get by today. the #1 complaint is griefing. Well... We are handling griefing in an update completely separate to Outposts. Outpost claiming is icing on the cake, by giving you extra benefits such as teleportation and control over permissions. These are things no one has today, but players are still getting by and having fun....
    It's ok to pay for those benefits.

    Sorry for spacing.. I did not write it this way but the forums converted it into this.
    Aikar, Dec 15, 2015
    #83
    Dufne, kevmeup, Krysyy and 5 others like this.
  4. I know TPs will be added with OutPosts, will those be restricted to the center of the "Headquarters", or should we expect a tpset and locs like residences?

    I understand that you can expand the outpost from the headquarters, do you see it possible to completely cover a 2800 wide area eventually? Would expansion be directly from the HQ, or separate bubbles?
    kevmeup, Dec 16, 2015
    #84
    MmarkM and ThaKloned like this.
  5. The TP he is referring to is back to town and at current, is designed to be in the initial HeadQuarters claim.

    I'm sure it will be possible to cover a wide are of land, but it will have associated costs. The initial claim will be the big purchase, with expansions costing less as you are just adding area around the HeadQuarters. I do not think we have decided if the expansions will be separate bubbles or direct add-ons at this time.
    Krysyy, Dec 16, 2015
    #85
    ThaKloned and kevmeup like this.
  6. Do you know if the claim will have to be a radius? For example, could additional claims be in a diagnal, or a straight line in one direction? Might be too early to know that much, but I thought I'd ask :)
    MmarkM, Dec 16, 2015
    #86
  7. But I'm an introvert with no sense of social skills!
    xHaro_Der, Dec 16, 2015
    #87
    ShelLuser and RainbowChin like this.
  8. Krysyy, Dec 16, 2015
    #88
  9. You've got 'dem mad social skillz bro. No lies!
    Krysyy, Dec 16, 2015
    #89
    ShelLuser, RainbowChin, TheDarkModRises and 1 other person like this.
  10. How is mining even on a large scale even comparable to actually earning tokens? You stand to lose nothing by mining. Killing mini-bosses, you can die and lose your items. I just don't see how it relates and how mining, where you're gaining materials, is putting effort into earning tokens. Mining is probably one of the easiest things that exists on minecraft.
    kaptrix, Dec 16, 2015
    #90
    Salpai likes this.
  11. What if you dislike being thrown around like a ragdoll lol. There's other ways to put forward effort in the wild besides mini bosses.
    xHaro_Der, Dec 16, 2015
    #91
    SkareCboi and Rhythmicaly like this.
  12. I'm not saying there aren't other ways to earn it. I just don't feel like mining deserves tokens.
    kaptrix, Dec 16, 2015
    #92
  13. Is endurance not as much of an effort as difficulty? It certainly takes more endurance to mine for a long time.
    xHaro_Der, Dec 16, 2015
    #93
  14. the current mining reward is based on the effort to form a group, and coordinate fast paced mining together. sure its not a "Hard" achievement, but its still something that you gotta coordinate a little bit.

    if 1 person is doing all the work, your score wont get high enough to get the tokens.

    Claim Sizes
    The initial area is 3x3 where center is the chunk you claim on. The goal (and this part is unlikely to change) is that you can teleport TO town from anywhere in those 3x3 chunks. Expanded claims around HQ will NOT let you teleport.

    We'll likely let you add single chunk expansions but commands to claim 2x2, 3x3, etc 'utility' commands to help cover land faster (and maybe at discount too!)

    But there are plans to allow players to establish alternate headquarters that is not connected to the current one, but that will not be in phase 1.

    Then you would set a tpset at each HQ on where to land, and can setup visual portals to TP back to town for aesthetics if you wish.

    Note, none of this is 100% final... just sharing some of my current plans but they can always change.
    Aikar, Dec 16, 2015
    #94
    kevmeup, MmarkM and ThaKloned like this.
  15. Does this mean that if you claim an example of 10x10 chunks, you'll only be able to teleport back to town from the HQ? So no fast transport anywhere else in the claim is what you're saying?
    xHaro_Der, Dec 16, 2015
    #95
  16. That's what ive been saying thousands of times everyone brings out the pitchfork about teleporting in the wild :p
    Aikar, Dec 16, 2015
    #96
    cadgamer101 likes this.
  17. By that logic you would also get tokens for swimming/running long distances because it involves "endurance".
    kaptrix, Dec 16, 2015
    #97
    tuqueque and Shyguy_1 like this.
  18. That is not a traditional aspect of survival Minecraft. It's straight in the name of the game - mine. That is the most fundamental part of the survival aspect of the game. Tokens reward you for being productive, at least that's what the impression that I got was. Voting, killing mobs, etc, it only makes sense to include mining.. Swimming/running is not a productive activity.
    xHaro_Der, Dec 16, 2015
    #98
    SkareCboi likes this.
  19. The protection and teleporting, ect, is for outposts in the frontier. So with that logic, if tokens are going to be the said currency to purchase such abilities, then mining, building, AND mob hunting are all equal parts of Frontier duties, correct? IMO token payment should be based on all of those activities rather than just mob hunting. Personally, for every hour I've spent mob hunting at my oupost, I've spent at least 3 hrs building or mining there.
    Not exactly sure how tokens could be payed for building, but mining payments probably wouldn't be that difficult to do.
    MmarkM, Dec 16, 2015
    #99
    SkareCboi likes this.
  20. I have spent quite a few hours over the last few years in the wild and since these mobs were introduced: I have only ever come across two enraged mobs, and three Marlixes. The enraged mobs were promptly killed, and gave me nothing of worth to me (a dragon fragment - I don't actually know what they do, and like, ten tokens each or something). The Marlixes killed me and got swore at because I didn't actually mean to fight them when they spawned outside my house. There's not that many methods of getting tokens for people like me who play solo (at what was once a public outpost but died, apart from me logging in there occasionally) in the wilderness - pretty much the only ways are getting minimal tokens for something I never see and fighting something that can insta-kill me because I'm alone.
    synth_apparition, Dec 16, 2015
    #100
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