Philanthropy...or apparent lack thereof?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by DrasLeona247, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. To be clear, my seniority here is pretty low (been playing for 2 months), but this is just a little thought from me:

    What is the point of having millions or tens of millions of rupees if you do not spend them?

    I notice a lot of newer players attempting to sell items such as animal eggs, farm items, or simply general goods, but attracting little attention in the chat.

    If you have 3 million rupees, it will not kill you to spend 30 seconds and buy a few things for 500 rupees.

    Also to be clear: I'm not referring to myself. I just have a shop for fun with a couple of things. But I see a lot of newer players advertise their mini shops when 2 dozen established players are online, and I'm the only one who shows up to support them.

    Nevertheless, I am really enjoying my time here. Community is very nice. But perhaps when a new player joins, more people could show up to their plot to give them some I really the first person to think of doing that?

    Is everyone else so busy they can't spare a couple minutes to give away some things?

    In any case. I don't want to come across as complaining. This is just me thinking out loud some observations.
  2. I see your points, but ...
    My own unique method of support has been to allow players to help stock my shop for roughly the same price i sell items at. Buying items at current rates helps new players understand the prices and the economy on emc.

    At some point, everyone wants to run their own shop. However, when they sell oak boats for 100r and don't want to hear what prices seem to actually be... the harm that is done from buying bamboo for 100r per stack cannot be undone. Because they always think they can sell it for that and someone will always be around to buy it.

    The best way to learn the economy of emc is to sell to other shops and learn what prices are. Then, with a firm grasp on prices, to venture out into the auctions, selling bulk direct to players, or opening their own shop.

    That being said - this is a game and we should all have fun. There are players who come on and demand help because 'I checked every shop and everyone is out of (sugarcane) so give me (sugarcane)' Even when suggesting the public resource farms that exist, I have have seen players insist that there isn't any (sugarcane) at any of them. We can't help everyone. Some players are just gonna do their own thing. sadly.

    And then there are the kids who aren't old enough to understand the economy principles that are at play here. And real life money lessons that are applicable. They just aren't mature enough yet.

    no easy answers here. sorry.
  3. Interesting posts!
    I do see people give away things quite often (adjusted for the amount of times that I'm online :p), but indeed not often buying things. Maybe it's because most people with a lot of money have storage issues? :p
    Tuqueque likes this.
  4. As one of those people with lots of rupees…

    First of all, I would second a lot of what Katy said. Definitely, buying at a small player shop at a price inconceivable for the rest of the economy of this server isn’t a good way to let a player start up. It doesn’t teach them how to go about actually playing on this server. It’s an economy server, after all, players need to learn the economy.
    I do, though, want to add some more things.

    Secondly, there is another reason than the one you suggest on why I wouldn’t buy at small player shops. This might seem irrelevant, but I am going somewhere with this.
    I usually don’t buy at player shops at all, as I already have it in my own storage. Literally, when building my storage at 752, and adjacent reses, or my tower at 202, or my shop complex at 963 and adjacent reses, I didn’t need to buy a single item. I buy items when they’re cheap, and sell them to people when they need it. This results in me having at least a few DC of every single item in the game, from jungle wood stairs to sea lanterns to red nether brick walls. When I do need an item in a larger quantity than I have, like I once needed wool in 1.11, I need chests upon chests, an amount not feasible to buy at small shops, and definitely not when they’re overpriced.
    To be honest: the vanilla item market is completely trivial to me when it comes to the items I need myself. I mean, I have been playing since 2012, do you really expect me to still need vanilla items from someone? I do use this market, but only with the goal of making rupees, or as charity. I buy items or farm items, usually in large quantities, and then sell them to malls or specific people who need them, also in large quantities. I am talking about 1-100DC per order. When talking about vanilla items and they’re not in DCs, I am usually just not interested financially, it’s a waste of time :p
    When I’m in small player shops, I have a calculator on my desk and a spreadsheet with values of materials. When it’s cheap, I buy everything. When it’s not, I move on. Same goes with selling items to malls. Tom and I do this every now and then, going over every single shop we can find.
    Jet, when people ask in chat “I need four stacks of sea lanterns” I do sell these items in person to them for normal market value. I don’t see this as a way to make rupees, I see this as charity. Same actually goes for shops like Tom’s and mine cobblestone shop at 1070: We don’t nearly make enough rupees on it to justify stocking it, but cobblestone is a necessary item for a lot of things, and it can sometimes be hard to get. We have this shop mostly just to stabilise the market. Not just that one, our wool shop at 963 and most other planned shops all are a way to say “Here is a reliable source for those items if you need them” rather than “this is our business strategy to make rupees.” :p

    This is the kind of philanthropy that I think is far more valuable on a server where the fun is supposed to be to sell and buy stuff: selling the stuff that isn’t profitable to sell, stabilising markets. Giving players a place to buy a few stacks or DCs of cobblestone if they need it for something, rather than having them go to lots of shops, quite a few of which are overpriced, and most of which are only stocked with half a stack.
    Additionally: When a player fought a Blizz Ard and they want to sell the items they got, because they want the rupees, I will buy them for market prices, same goes with any other promo. That’s how you end up with stacks of them.
    One more: when a player has a gravel collecting service, and they do it for a reasonable price, I will usually order a few DC if they’re low on orders, even when it the price is not that great.
    As far as I know, most people who are as wealthy as me do this kind of stuff. It’s just that, because this is an economy server, we choose not to buy stuff when it’s overpriced. That’s not doing good: it’s destabilising a market.
    It’s not that I don’t spent any time on doing good, it’s that my idea of doing good, after having played on this server for eight years, is quite different from yours.

    The reality is: the players who get a lot of stuff usually don’t even stay. There are exceptions, of course, but, most of the time, when they need the stuff they have gotten previously again, and need to gather it themselves, they get burned out, as it is a lot more work now.
    I really think it’s better to help people to get orders or to buy and sell at market prices, even when it’s not profitable, than to just give stuff away.

    Then, to answer the other question that seems to be at the heart of your post:

    Those aren’t just crafting benches and normal fireworks, they’re labour benches and empire fireworks: promos. Left to right 2017 to 2013.
    This is a random chest from Tom’s and mine promo storage. It’s worth roughly 20mil at current market rate. This is why we have so many rupees. Our promo collection isn’t nearly complete, there are plenty of items worth ~5mil a pop that we don't have a single one of jet.
    Additionally: I am doing other stuff. Tom and I might own a near-spawn res at 202, but we don’t even own a full-on spawn res. The one we have is worth more than 2mil, think about the value of an even better res location.
    This server has a lot of content for people who are as end-game as Tom and me. We are doing our own stuff. It’s not that, when you’re at a given point, you just become a charity, someone with so many rupees that you can just start going to all small shops and give stuff away, that everything becomes completely trivial.
    Thing is: I use my materials, and I do sometimes run out, it’s just all on a scale that is inconceivable for single player survival, jet completely expectable for a server as large as this one. If I were to be really free-giving with my items, I would quickly run out again. This why even that cobblestone shop I talked about sells items for a price, and doesn’t give them away. There needs to be some sort of barrier to make sure that I always have items in these large quantities: that is my business model, after all. Having stuff, in case someone else needs it.

    I guess this all concludes at this: buying items at overpriced player shops, or blindly giving stuff away usually doesn’t help anyone, but there are other ways to do good on an economy server, most notably stabilising the market. Additionally, there are other things, that do require millions and millions of rupees, that end-game players might be doing, making them not really wanting to give away their stuff, as they need it themselves, too.
    CarFryer, Esrik, 607 and 3 others like this.
  5. i will say i have given newer players items in the past, but it has become abundantly clear that many of them will become reliant on donations from people and then begin begging for rupees from people.. i think its mostly in the best interest for everyone involved if they start gathering materials on their own.

    with that being said i think it is important to note that i think its important that if they ask a emc based question, that people take the two seconds to answer their question.
    CarFryer, UltiPig, Windylava and 2 others like this.
  6. I've been on EMC for 6 years. I've amassed large amounts of items and a few million rupees from selling off extra items. I typically don't buy anything because I either already have enough of what someone is selling, or I have a farm that allows me to get what I need fairly quickly. When I do need something, I prefer to go and get it myself because that's just how I am. Now, if I need a large amount of something and it's not something I want to go get myself, then I'll buy it from people.

    With all that said, I'm not going to buy highly overpriced items just to give a new player some rupees. That gives the person the wrong idea of our economy works. I would much rather hire a person to do a job (like collecting resources) for me and pay them for that.
  7. I think there is maybe a larger question: what actually makes new players stick around? I tend to agree with the other people in this thread that buying from new players shops doesn't really help them too much, especially if the prices are bad. But I think it is still important to engage with these new players so that EMC can get back on a growth trajectory. I have seen a decent amount of negativity about new players in the game chat from some oldies who are frustrated by the revolving door of new people who show up and ask a couple questions just to disappear forever 20 minutes later. But I think it is important that we are welcoming to them MORE than just saying "welcome!" when they connect for the first time. Personally, I think it is more important that we are helpful in chat after they finish the tutorial than when they first connect, but usually it goes unnoticed when people finish the tutorial.

    I have a ton of low tier enchanted diamond armor / tools from old mob arenas that I have been giving away to new players, as I do not need it and it can be helpful to them. This isn't much...but its better than throwing it out and the people who receive the armor are usually quite happy.

    I think the most important job active players have in the current state of the server is finding ways to recruit new members, and getting the people who join on their own to stay. I don't have a specific recommendation for how we should achieve this, but I think it is very important that people try their best to interact with newbies ESPECIALLY if they join on your home server!
    607 and Egeau like this.
  8. I didn't read everyone's posts but to answer your question of :
    What is the point of having millions or tens of millions of rupees if you do not spend them?

    The answer is pure unadulterated greed. Not unlike what you see in real life. So you might want to answer the question, why are people greedy? Then you will have your answer. You might want to retort, but this is not real money, or something like that. Real money is not 'really real' particularly if you don't spend it is it. Anyway, good luck figuring it out.
  9. Great post! Thanks for your insight.
    Egeau likes this.
  10. I think my original post was more about new players being a bit ignored lol....what you're saying is definitely true Egeau, and you can definitely spend 20 mil rupees on collectibles, but I wasn't saying to spend millions on new player shops, but perhaps just make a few purchases here and there.

    And, no offense intended by this next point (and I'm not being overly serious ;)), but does collecting 20 million rupees' worth of promos help the server, economy, and players, or would commissioning building projects do that as well? Building projects would give new players work, give more value to materials....

    Stacking labor benches seems to just redistribute money around older players with promos. But this is delving more into economics that I really don't care enough about to debate.

    Anyway, it's a video game, so you do you!
  11. Is this where people come to humble brag? As a veteran player with endless supply of items and a lot of rupees, I think... I am kidding.

    Richer people have the problem of having too many items and they will make that their excuse. What's stopping them from giving away or getting rid of their extra stuff and buying from player shops as needed instead? Uhh... moving on.

    If the rumor that the TEXP leaderboards going away is true, then I think it is only fair to introduce a Token Leaderboards. Have them available by killing mobs or putting items into an item sink. How do we encourage players to put items into an item sink for tokens? Make tokens useful! It has been done in the past for the avalauncher but never done again. Not sure why. This would encourage people not to stockpile items but put it towards their token account.

    All in all, rich people need to get off their high horse, people should keep lower stock of items and buy as needed, and EMC should implement an item sink.
  12. i think people should take a step back and view it from our (“veteran players”) perspective... why would we start suddenly giving away all of our valuables and materials to a new player who we almost know will probably not be active on EMC for a while...

    i think its quite apparent that no one who spends as much time on EMC over the years as perhaps myself or anyone even longer than I wants to just give away everything we worked hard for and collected/ bought ourselves... especially when we have real money invested into EMC..

    this being said, i do give away materials to newer players if they ask nicely ;)
    UltiPig, Egeau and Rhycicles like this.
  13. Personally, I feel that handouts and such are fine as welcome gifts but outside of that we shouldn't spoil them with free stuff. I have worked years for all my stuff and I have earned it myself through the various gameplay methods as well as EMC methods and items. Giving free stuff to players simply because I have it isn't going to help this new player learn how EMC's economy and systems work and will just make them rely on others even more for handouts. When a player asks for something, I typically direct them to public farms or just tell them to go get it from the Wastelands. It's my personal belief of "one who works shall reap the rewards."

    TLDR: I direct new players to wealth rather than give up my own.
    607, wafflecoffee and FadedMartian like this.
  14. Having a large amount of rupees on hand will allow a player to get things like perm residence protection, support the server by buying in game supporter items and possibly other older 1 time chances at the rarest stuff. Call it greed if you want but there are probably some items that no longer exist in game due to bans, players leaving forever and lost residences.

    There are people and communities in game, like Jinsue, that are run in a socialist manner so you really don't have your own stuff and you give what you can from resources and in game currency to the cause, but that is still a choice to join them. I'm not sure Jinsue is still active, just know that is how they worked.

    Knowing how long some of the players have been on EMC and how many alts they have, I'd imagine the amount of items and rupees they all have make them pointing out others greed almost laughable.
  15. Hmm ok so I think my title was misleading. I wasn't saying "give away all of your rupees", more of "maybe stop ignoring new players", as I see quite a few in chat with little to do, occasionally getting jobs from Katy while advertising their small shops to no avail.

    Obviously everyone should do work, that's how I made a lot of rupees since starting on the server 2 months ago, but my post is more saying to perhaps redistribute some wealth through constructive projects and supporting player shops.

    But I know "redistribute wealth" will come across very negatively with those having a balance of 20 mil in their accounts. But nonetheless was just a suggestion. I was talking to some older players of this server and some lamented that there are no longer many large scale building projects involving lots of players collaborating.

    In any case, this was just a few side thoughts of mine. Hope I didn't come across as antagonizing, would still love to get to know all of you!
    607, talukegord and drnomn like this.
  16. Thanks for the ideas! :D
    I will admit that indeed I had a very different idea about this thread after reading the OP than after just reading the title.
    drnomn likes this.
  17. For new players there are lots of places to get free items, and lots of people who give free stuff to new players. There are also many shops you can sell to if you want to make money when getting started. You're right that new player shops probably don't attract a lot of customers - if it's a small shop with limited stock then a lot of the older players just don't need that stuff. Many of us have big hoards of chests full of each item.

    Just like real life you need to understand the market - what do people want, what price, and in what quantities. People find their niche selling bulk, selling rare items, partnering with shop owners to be a supplier, casually selling to shops, etc. When a new update comes out there's always high demand for new items, for a limited time.

    I wonder if the issue really is finding the places to go? The +shop tag is basically useless. Katy has a running list of active and stocked shops here on forums.

    Not every older player is a millionaire either. I've been on EMC for years and I'm not, because I spend my time on EMC doing things that don't earn me money but support the community - tidying up, replanting public farms that got left unplanted, etc. 90% of my time on EMC is for the community.
    Tuqueque, 607 and Obwangottemm like this.
  18. I Understand both points of this thread. Older players have stuff and don't need to buy or stock but i think what dras is getting at is the people with multiple accounts that get rich from real money and do nothing for the economy when they could help the economy and put it back into circulation of emc. which when started i felt the same way with some people blocking anyone newer to win any auctions or buy anything from market chat. I've grown to know these players and came to a realization that they get bored and hoard which is fine when you do also give the option of making money to newcomers at a fair if not overly fair pay to help grow their shop and or help emc grow as a whole and not always go to certain peoples pockets for their hoard. I try to help every person I can that comes into my shop and or on the forums if their new ill bid even if i don't want it. My shop is set up to make other people money not me cause it does come back around if you help the economy. Also i get it not every player buys from shops. Me for example i got my money from working hard on gathering and selling to other player shops and stocking my own shop with my hard work but also my sell and buy options on most stuff are a 1 r difference so that newer players can come in and do work and get payed good then I get the money back +1r when people buy from me. Just putting my 2 cents in and I'm not at all attacking anyone on here id just like to see some people come down of their high horses and play the game. Theirs also this higher command of emc of older players that think their above all which needs to go cause were all people and we all like Minecraft so lets play and enjoy each others presence not I'm well known so i have a stick up my lol js we are all equal its just not right trying to down somebody because you have had an account for a certain amount of time. I sure don't see kryssy or the real ogs talking about all their money and calling people noobs or underpaying people that don't yet know the currency of emc yet. And last I get it kids play this game and are immature sometimes just know im a father of 2 and understand that. Emc is not a lifeline for me. Emc is thee best server ever don't get me wrong its only one i play and i enjoyed the heck out of it with the people that are in it to play the game. ~Main Point~ lets make the game fair for everybody and just all get along... we are all equal and lets have some fun times :). And again im not Attacking ANYONE!!!!!! I LOVE ALLL!!!!!!
    DrasLeona247 and tamraaa like this.
  19. fair? you're right its a game, and you're not the only one in this thread that has mentioned older players need to come off of their "high horses", which is quite a bold statement. EMC is an economy-centered server and is based on market supply and demand. so yes, if someone is willing to pay more money for an item or a specific quantity of an item, then its most likely going to go to the highest payer-- granted one could decide they want to specifically sell to a newer player at a lower price point.

    having multiple accounts, as far as EMC is concerned, is irrelevant to wealth. i know players who are more than well off and only have had one account for 6 years on EMC vs someone like myself and other EMC players who have multiple accounts and have been on even longer than them.. so i mean ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Tuqueque likes this.
  20. "Cough" Looks like someone missed the main point -_-