I don't like this anti-grief update

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by mba2012, Aug 27, 2016.

  1. I understand how the anti-grief update is a major migraine for existing builds that were done as communities (or public ones). However, staff will gladly help you sort it out. Poor Cami and Hash have been driven bonkers by me, and they've not complained once. They've come out immediately and resolved issues as I've found them for both the Public Wild Utilities and my personal outposts. Now that most of the problems are sorted (I hope - I still have 2 players , Scharb and Tojoro, to "raise from the dead" or have staff transfer ownership to me), this is a dream come true for me moving forward. I feel like I've spent almost all of the last year maintaining/repairing public builds. I'm looking forward to being able to do OTHER stuff :D

    Going forward, it's pretty easy to manage once you get familiar with all the new commands. I'm sure there will be issues that are found and tweaks that are made to make it better.

    I'm not sure I understand why you believe this makes community builds more difficult. Everyone friends each other, ta da. If that's not practical, then everyone friends the owner/leaders who can then vouch for folks as needed. The latter is how we wound up doing Fort Wart since it's a public build done by 22 different people.

    It would be nice if the vouch could take a time input other than 30 minutes. We worked on Fort Wart together for about 2 weeks, and I did have to vouch repeatedly, but at least it's a short command. A default of 30 and then an optional reasonable time range limit on it would make sense to me so that people can't vouch for someone for days/years.
  2. Just a comment on this subject. I am not directing it at anyone, it is more something that bothers me I guess. I am just trying to help with some feed back from players of my style.

    I am not one to join up with groups and be a social butterfly. My friend list is short for a reason as well as the list of people that I follow on the forum ( 3 I think). Sometimes I feel social and sometimes I dont. Right now I have agreed to join an outpost, my first attempt to ....... get out there in the mix so to say.

    Sometimes I like the outpost life, but sometimes I find it to be very trying. On subject though, I was working around my outpost house and a player was bored and wanted to help. I did not want to be around anyone but he wanted to place blocks. What he placed was not terrible but was not what I wanted. But by the time I figured it out, he was gone and the blocks are there. Blocks that are in the right place but I choose to change, too bad, I cant move them. Another spot, a work bench needed to be moved after the project was completed and I wanted to put a cover over it. I could not move the work bench because the bench was place by someone else.

    I understand, call SS. Call moderator. Do friend list.

    1. SS - Calling senior staff every time I need a block removed for the reasons stated above would get old. As I slowly find the blocks that need to be taken care of, it might be a couple minutes to half hour between requests.

    2. moderator- see 1.

    3. Do friend list - I am not going to populate a friend list with a bunch of people I dont even know on the off chance that I MIGHT need to move a block they placed.

    I am not a towney type and I am only in the out post for a limited time. I am not going to live here and operate out of this location. I will visit as often as I can. I prefer to roam and travel and go places that others may not have gone before.

    Like I said, the anti grief makes it hard for me to be sociable and do group work but I suppose I dont do enough for it to matter.
  3. There is now a third option, and I think that's your best choice here: groups.

    So tell those players not to mess with your buildings unless...
    • /invite players to the group.
    • Group leader (you) does: /gr buildmode Acemox2k
    • Happy building!
    From that point on all placed protected blocks placed by group members will be owned by you. No need to befriend people, no need to set weird flags (I tend to finetune a bit who of my friends can actually mess with my buildings) just start a group and you're ready to go.

    Hope this can help.

    Oh, and if you run into issues where those other players now can't break your blocks.. Even that is covered:
    • (optionally) /gr breakblock on; to allow everyone in the group to break each others blocks.
  4. @ shell .... The problem comes from someone who shows up and wants to help. I dont want help. They choose to do a few things and then leave. I find the few things and sigh.... good fences make good neighbors.

    I know could be considerd griefing but I believe its just a young person who doesnt understand. The commands you speak of require communication and I dont want any sometimes. You know, its my house and i said i dont need help what more needs to be done?

    Its almost like the server is forcing people to communicate and work together. Baby steps at first. I need to go get an out post walled off where my rules are law. Of course I will be the only one there so no law will be broken as I will amend them as needed. hahahaha
    Equinox_Boss, 00void, mba2012 and 2 others like this.
  5. I believe something like that is going to happen with Empires.

    A feature which I know exists but isn't accessible for regular players (yet) is just that: sub-sectioning. Just head down to the underground angel on SMP2 (time capsule, below the park) and try to dive into the capsule itself. You'll soon see what I'm talking about. Note: I'm not sharing any exact locations because I like to keep the mystery alive for new(er) players.

    I also recall reading a comment from the staff where it got mentioned that we might even get this feature on our residences. So: you could have your buildings protected but reserve a section for a public vegetable farm. But that was all a mere "what if" and nothing really official or conclusive :)

    Yes, fully agreed that there's little you can do about that. At least not right now, this is probably going to be addressed when Empires come out. But even then this would only apply to established outposts.

    I wonder if it might have been better (or even possible, no idea there) to apply the "automatically uncommon block protection" to the wastelands only and so basically enforce /buildmode usage for the Frontier. So if you don't use buildmode none of your blocks are protected.

    This would prevent players placing protected blocks "just like that" and might even put less pressure on the staff. Hmm, maybe food for thought, might even mention this in the official thread as soon as I've given this a bit more thought (because there would also be major downsides to this).
  6. Btw, warning - if you're in a group, the leader can set build perms, so that he/she owns them all ... If everyone builds, then the individuals are no longer in the group (via leaving/kicking) ...

    Those individuals dont even have access to their own blocks, and had no say over the permissions

    Aka) indirect stealing
    Equinox_Boss and Gawadrolt like this.
  7. More or less I am hearing this is a band aid on a large open wound. I don't enjoy it due to the fact of someone can abuse this privilege and cause greifing without touching your blocks ex: large pillars, Block spam, inappropriate builds, and Walling. With this protection, you can protect yourself from these attacks.

    Personally this update should of been working on a "RollBack" update which staff have the ability to recover blocks that were broken by a certain individual. This will solve the affected needing to take hours to fix what was broken. Multiple build servers that I have been on have this feature and it is a blessing to builders. Let's be honest here, there will always going to be someone destroying something and giving staff this tool will solve many headaches.

    I'll add more if I am alerted.
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  8. It's a little more complex. It's not merely the leader but everyone who can be the designated owner of the placed blocks. However, there are very bright warnings when this setting gets toggled (you also always get a warning about it when you join a group) and during such a session both buildmode and 'group buildmode' warnings will be shown.

    So it's not very easy to simply trick people into using this.
    Equinox_Boss and 607 like this.
  9. Chat can easily be ignored - yet even if it's not, individuals have no say in the specified permission from their group leader ... It wouldn't be as bad if you still had at the very least dual ownership of the blocks unless 'you' specified they aren't
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  10. Although true there's really nothing new here. The same applies to diff (set difficulty), xpshare (toggle XP/token sharing), pvp (toggle pvp damage), grouptp (allow /gtp; group teleports), buffs (bonus buffs. for mining / fighting), etc. This is basically how groups have always worked, when you're part of a group the leader gets to set the rules.
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  11. Mmm. Although I can easily understand OP's point, I believe he's only considering his own experience of the game and style of playing (in that case, as a member of an outpost with a large number of contributors).

    I have to disagree - or rather, offer a different perspective - on some of the opinions he expressed.

    First, griefing for me never was "easy to fix". I'm not member of a large community; I built and maintained most of my outpost alone, with ad-hoc help of a couple good pals. When a single griefer bombs even a small part of my smaller builds, it can take me hours or days to fix. And I do not have an infinite amount of rupees to buy rare replacement parts; so sometimes, I'm not able to fix damages without extensive work to gather back the needed resources.

    I also cannot patrol every single place of my outpost everyday to check if everything is still in place, either. It has happened more than once that griefing was discovered many days later, giving ample time for the nasty players to entertain extensive - but geographically limited - destruction.

    Third, no, staff didn't "swiftly sort things out". They act quickly to ban the offending players, indeed. But how is that supposed to sort out anything? Damage done was staying done, and the burden, in the end, was still on my shoulders.

    And for me, it also isn't "a minority that rarely shows its face". I undertook the task of maintaining in shape some commonly used passage points in the nether - those got griefing damages on average once a week, possibly more. One of the main railway lines I'm keeping in shape got damaged at least a dozen times in the last six months. A minority it may be, but its rarity is unfortunately an all too common one for my own tastes.

    Again, I understand OP's position on this. Some understanding of difficult situations players like me, who are not part of a large group, faced (does that make me protective and individualist, by the way?) would have been nice, though. Hence why I typed this - to try to give you a different, and hopefully wider, perspective.
    Equinox_Boss, 607, mba2012 and 4 others like this.
  12. This is just pointing out what should be done lauwenmark don't worry.
    Equinox_Boss and lauwenmark like this.
  13. yeah, I can 100% see where this is coming from, and I'll try to craft a response as a non-really-wild user.

    I personally think it's just a nice feature to have. I do have a small soon-to-be established outpost on 7 and using the antigrief is a good safeguard against my work, but I can see where some people would think it redundant. For people with megafarms in the wild, this update is a godsend to them.
    Equinox_Boss likes this.