Five Ideas to Help the Servers. [LOCKED] Too much hostility.

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by nerone94, Jun 24, 2012.

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  1. and how is that any different from what happens now? If you dont catch a person with a screenshot, merely being in the vicinity of a place that got griefed isn't proof enough to ban them. Maybe someone using hide already did it, and they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    this is a silly argument, and doesn't make any sense. I have not heard of anybody suing Live map to catch a griefer. Ever. Screenshots, yes.
  2. What about this?

    Jimmytatertors3000: Oh hey, I can see that guy building in the live map because he's a non-supporter and can't /map hide. Ima go visit this lovely wild outpost *griefs outpost*

    SusieLuvsBieber: Someone griefed my wild outpost, but I wasn't watching the live map 24/7 so I don't know who, and even if I did see someone at my wild outpost, I wouldn't be able to prove that it was him who did it.

    Jimmytatertors3000: Oh hey that was fun, and theres another non-supporter on the live map, lets do it again! *griefs other stuff*
  3. Fine then. People do watch the live map while they're out there and it does help catch griefers. If you see someone in the vicinity of an area then you're gonna know someone is there and can actually get there to do screenshots of the griefer and griefing. If everyone had /map hide then there is no point in having a live map. Who wants to sit and watch an empty map? Sick and tired of all the people on the forum wanting to be rude.
  4. Except you don't know when or where the griefers will be griefing. There are hundreds of bases out there and you don't know who's griefing or who owns them. Griefers can also use the live map to know when the player they are griefing is offline.

    Fun fact: I've been griefed 4+ while I was a non supporter, but only once while I was a supporter. When I was griefed as a supporter, it took over two months for the person to find my base. They would only be able to find my base with extreme luck, and it would most likely be whenever I'm not watching the live map.

    I'm backing my argument with logical reasoning, not by calling you a douche.
  5. I truthfully don't think they were trying to be rude. They were giving valid points, just as you were. I agree with both arguments. Griefers can easily use the live map to find people and grief their structure. However, some people DO use the live map as a protective precaution. Hiding griefers from the live map could be just as bad. I don't see a way to solve this. :p
    Pab10S and PandasEatRamen like this.
  6. The :
    Was pretty rude. I gave valid reasons and he acted as if I'm stupid or something. That's what I was trying to say. If everyone had /map hide then there's no reason for the live map. People use it to see who is in their vicinity and check the person out to see whether or not they're just passing through or whether they're griefing. I think It's easier to grief stuff if you have /map hide because then you can't be seen on the map.
  7. Well, I thought that the live map was originally introduced to allow people to find their way back to spawn, not to allow griefers to find people and vice versa.
  8. That may have been it's purpose but people do use it to grief. It's not that hard to find an unhidden name on the map and follow it or dig down into someone's base or grinder and grief it.
  9. Commandments and Guidelines

    4. Thou Shalt Not Be Rude

    Be polite and respectful to others in the game and in the chat, and don’t harass or insult anybody, for any reason.


    Pandas, please edit your post and remove/strike out the insults. Thank you.

    Please understand, saying "this is a silly argument" is fine, but saying "You are silly" is not fine, because it is ad hominem.
  10. That's exactly why people should be able to choose to hide or show on the live map.
    nerone94 likes this.
  11. Re. allowing non-supporters to hide - and that helping them - sure. But you could use exactly the same argument to suggest non-supporters could go to the Utopia wild, or could use TNT.

    Supporters do grief - people will always grief. But less supporters grief, because someone paying for a service is more likely to care if they are banned. Can you imagine allowing non-supporters to use TNT? Sounds bad, eh? Well... you're saying that they should be able to hide, because supporters can grief too. So let 'em use TNT?

    And Utopia is great; things there are about 99% less likely to be griefed. It's lovely; you can build a nice bridge right near the spawn, go back weeks later, and it's still there! Why? Because, as a statistical thing, supporters are less likely to grief.

    Being a supporter has benefits, and the ability to hide is a key benefit. If everyone could use it, that de-values supporter.
  12. Let's start here. You cant say less supporters grief. I can name 3 supporters that have griefed. And been banned for it. You cannot make vague, general statistical proclamations when you have no way of knowing this. Unless you know every single griefer out there. In which case, let us know so they may be banned.

    The TNT argument... makes no sense. TNT as a mining tool is laughable at best. Giving everybody TNT would not make the game better in any way. REgardless, I cant name any supporter using TNT in the wild. It is mostly a digging tool ,and and expensive one at that. Hiding is a non destructive perk that could help everybody. This point is moot.

    As for Utopia: you are again, incorrect my friend. The lack of griefing, I am 100% sure, comes from the smaller player pool on Utopia, and the fact that not many people live there. Give that the fact that EVERYBODY CAN HIDE ON UTOPIA, is the explanation for less griefing. REgardless, I have seen numerous cases of griefing on Utopia, and can provide screenshots. I cannot say the same for any other server.

    Third: We have already said we would replace it with a greater value perk, or at least equal. You are makign it sound like we are saying "Strip supporters of all perks right now!" When we have repeatedly said we would support replacing it with something else. Maybe an hour of being able to fly in town a day? Who knows?

    Onto this little debacle here:

    I have repeatedly, REPEATEDLY said it cuts both ways, but that the general good outweighs the general bad. If I am tired of repeating myself and get cranky, I am sorry.

    That being said, I can 100%, irrevocably, undeniably, swearing on he grave of Jesus himself, guarantee, 1000000%! that people being unable to hide is 100% more of a curse than a blessing. I can promise you, without a shadow of doubt, that if everybody could hide when they wanted to, that it WOULD cut out a LOT of griefing. Not all of it, but I would make claims in at least the 33% range. Whilst I can, at the same time, assure you 100% that the other side of the blade would be far, far, far lower a figure. Sure, they an hide too. But they have to find the place first. And that, my friend, takes more of a miracle than anything for people who are hidden.
  13. [quote="PandasEatRamen, post: 161644"]
    . If everyone had /map hide then there's no reason for the live map.[/quote]

    I for one, enjoy looking at structures you can see from "space" on the livemap. And to get my bearings if I get lost (I usually /unhide then /rehide)
  14. Yet,

    Stats/evidence please?
  15. Alright, let's start stating all the main points of the "make live /map hide for everyone" topic:

    - Griefers use the live map to find non-supporters to grief - allowing everyone to /map hide will make it harder for griefers to find victims (FOR)
    - Victims of grief can use the live map to alert themselves of griefers if they are watching the live map (AGAINST)
    - Griefers usually wait until their victim is offline/far away before they grief - they can use the live map for this (FOR)
    - It is a main supporter perk (AGAINST)
    - The perk could be replaced by something else that preferably doesn't cause non-supporters to be victims of rulebreaking (FOR)
    - The main use of the live map is to allow people to find their way back to spawn - this will not be impacted since the person lost in the wild will be able to /map show themselves to do this. (FOR)
    - Anything else? Let me know if you think anything is biased, and I'll change it.
  16. But what? I can't think of anything that would be equivalent in any way. As it isn't defined, I don't see this as a valid "FOR" argument.

    Why is that an argument FOR? It's totally unaffected by the suggested change; it's no better or worse.

    Part of that argument seems invalid - they can easily see if a person is offline, without the live map (by using /who or /p). So that part seems irrelevant.

    I disagree that that is a fair comparison. Utopia is different in many ways; it's unfair to conclude that the hiding aspect is the reason for less grief - and I don't believe that is the main reason, either. As others said - it's got less players, so surely that is the main reason. Plus the thing I said before, about supporters caring more about being banned and thus, that's a deterrent.


    *People who support the website are rewarded with certain privileges. Removing this key privilege de-values supporter status.

    *The bad guys hiding won't just affect those watching the live-map. It'll affect everyone; the bad guys are more likely to feel confident sneaking around, if they know they're not shown on the map.

    *Having a large number of hidden users may be confusing to newer users. It is nice and convenient for new players to be able to see where most people are; it adds to the community-feel. For that reason, I only hide when I need to. If everyone can hide - including relatively inexperienced players - it may be off-putting to the new visitors.

    *"Keep it simple" - it is yet another complication for newcomers to understand. OK, so currently there may be a couple of supporters hidden - but not often. If lots are hidden, that's another complex topic that can confuse and add to the EMC learning-curve
    PandasEatRamen likes this.
  17. Maybe adding the residence dirt-clearing tool that I remember people talking about a while ago?

    This is because it means the positive aspects of the live map (finding the way back to town) will still be maintained, while the negative aspects (people using the live map to find griefing victims) will be removed.[/quote]

    How about if I remove the offline part and keep it at "griefers waiting until their victim is far away"?

    Good point.

    As I said, we could sort out some sort of substitute for the /hide from live map. Being a supporter would still be desirable to gain an advantage over non-supporters.

    They'll be sneaking around much more inefficiently: instead of wandering 5 minutes in a direct line towards a player, they'll be spending hours, maybe days digging around for a hidden underground base.

    I don't think new visitors would get off-put because they are unable to see where everyone else is. Griefing is a much more real and serious problem than this.

    Learning new things is what makes EMC fun. Once you know it all - that's when things start getting boring and old.
  18. I can see quite a few flaws to some of your ideas although you did put forward some convincing arguments!
  19. the main one i notest was the stronger flags (ect.) flag k illing animals eggy animals. or there is a loophole through killing animals i have found if you hit one with snowballs or fishing poles you can kill, also if you are high and shoot the animal it goes flying and dies from fall damage!
  20. I'm sorry, but I just think 2 is silly. I haven't read the other posts, but the whole point of town is for it to be safe, and the wild to be well.. wild! If you start claiming areas in the wild then it will no longer be the wild and then what will happen? Plus, how are you going to moderate sizes? and when people travel through caves and hit your area? Also, I suspect there would be many arguments over how someone claimed an area and got no diamonds so they go "wahh :( me no diamondz"
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