why cant we do 2 smps? seems better idea that any1 can help out. and 4 that i think we could pick smps which are more quiet. smp3 sounds like a cool idea, maybe smp6 (2x3=6)? ^.^
Why do none of my outposts ever catch on but others do? ;( On another note, this sounds pretty cool. smp8 is probably best for me.
this one will die too if the politics gets in the way :-P Edit because I didn't have enough time to respond a minute ago: mob rule doesn't work. Doesn't matter what or where it is, just doesn't work. If the whole vote on everything is swept under the rug then maybe the outpost will survive for a while. You will have more cohesion with no rules than with mob rule. With no rules leaders will just happen and people will follow. When everyone is a "leader" everything goes to shit. That's why it makes me giggle when people are like "democracy" there is no such thing because they all die, and FAST. Representative governance works until its undermined, which is inevitable but it can easily be rebirthed and has a much longer shelf life than mob rule I'm gonna come along to see what happens though.
So, as it stands, smp9 is the only server that wouldn't cause inconvenience to anyone. 4, 5 and 6 are also up for consideration still. I think it'd be good to have one central point. Working on different smps in parallel doesn't seem like an efficient option to me, and in practice one of the two would probably become the main outpost anyway, and the other one wouldn't receive enough support.
I have a proposition. We pretend we're America! We have a group that is the in between from mass players to head of the outpost, and have polls for big changes. A strawpoll or new thread for voting would work. Basically the founder or someone would be head of the outpost, then he would choose 5-10 people as his senate of sorts. The senate listens to all ideas, and decides whether to allow them or not. If they so choose, they can put the idea up for public voting. If and when the head person steps down, a public vote it held. We could also do public voting for the senate. I'm avoiding the term president because last time EMC presidents happened it wasn't pretty. So, what do you guys think? TDLR? Check the first paragraph.
Any system of government will have massive downsides. I agree that pure direct democracy doesn't work to well irl but this is Minecraft. Many of the problems that we face irl don't exist here (which is why people probably like it). With that said, it can always change. As long as everyone is a member and can come to the outposts, the actual way we do things can be modified or replaced. If this proves too inefficient for governing an EMC outpost, the entire system could be changed in a week. I like the idea but I feel that now isn't the best time to establish a new government. First, we should see what works and what doesn't. After some time has passed we try to fix things. Changing it now would only let us guess as to what is wrong and we might miss some big things. Once again, the decision isn't up to me so if you have a plan written out you could always put it up to vote, but this is my opinion on the subject.
Mba brought up some great points while ranting about the downsides of the anti-grief update and how it would effect large outposts, like I assume is the goal of this undertaking. EMC has this outpost already... well, it did. It was called the Last Light Outpost, the governance of such has changed(as much as I can tell) over time but one huge thing happened that made the outpost very different from what it used to be... which is a little ironic considering Mba's argument against the anti-grief update lol. Griefings happened and turned many a player on Emc into more of an "introverted" play style when playing in the wild. There are many groups of people and many different outposts around Emc but there is no LLO. There are outposts that spring up and get huge followings and quickly die out but they seem to me to not be quite the coming together that LLO had in its early life. I go on this rant because Evesthery proposed a governance of that like America... except the US's government now is nothing like what we were taught in school(well I don't know what they are teaching you all anymore, moon's made of cheese is my best guess ). A representative government would take into account all these little factions of players that are littered all over Emc, their history, demeanor and "culture" to an extent and combine them into something where we could all work together without ticking every other group off but while also not creating sects to the point that inclusion is kinda an afterthought. Starting slow might make sense, have these individual groups have a like 500x500 area that is just theirs while having a communal center area we eventually engage each other an build our "multicultural," if you will, global outpost. Of course the center would end up spilling out into the surrounding areas so you could make like a map and have each group vote on what area they wanted, naturally the more extroverted groups like Mba and co(other players that come to mine are shell and khixan). would want to be closer to the center of attention and those type of people have an easier time adapting to social change more quickly while the players on the outside would have more time to dip their toes into the "global" outpost before getting more comfortable... like myself(I know I'm not that reserved on the forums but how many times have you seen me in game? I play all the time lol) and maybe thakloned or bitemenow lol. Those groups with a mix of introverted and extroverted groups could claim like a middle of the road area. If we did this on like a grid and made the central area like 1000x1000 and each "group" area 500x500 then we could have 8-12 spaces right next to the center and those on the outside would feel quite comfortable in their distance if there was 3 rings. It would make plenty of room for growth too. Maybe going a little smaller with 500x500 center 250x250 for groups? Just spitballing. So the center and the representative governance. Each group would have a representative but that representative would be voted by the group, democracy works a little better on a small scale with people you know and trust Those representatives would be responsible for their square and coming up with an "integration" plan as the outpost grows. The representatives would elect a moderator(not to be confused with staff) for city planning and such. Moderator would have limits like, to begin, two weeks term limit and not able to serve as moderator again for at least two terms after. IMHO it's all about bringing as little rules and regulations while at the same time making sure that there is a "controlled chaos" or mediation to the intent of moderation. Everything in moderation. No one person gets to call all the shots but not everyone calls all the shots. There still has to be leaders but there can't be masters. Of course this is all with the assumption that a large scale outpost that brings together all the amazing talent scattered across emc is the actual intent of the outpost. Edit: Can I also propose that people be considerate with lag? A lot of us have garbage computers and when you go putting fifty different kinds of auto farms in a small area... well we don't wanna be there, sorry carthaga... its really pretty though. Second edit: I have pictures that came from my mind!!! Oddly enough, after thinking about it... most mods seem to be in that "not so extroverts" category if you ask me. dreacon is definitely an introvert though... no one can destroy whole mountain ranges on the regular by theselves and be considered social at all xD
That's a good question. I'd suppose we should consider if most of the active players voted. However, at this point, we don't really know how many 'active players' we've got.
I don't know about defined areas. I think a defined central area would be good, but I think for most things (like houses and stuff) it could be more of a consent-based system. Like, "Hey, this spot has a good view of the lake, can I build here?" "Sure, just stay out of this line of torches."
I had it in the main post but in the process of editing and rearranging it must have gotten removed. A vote lasts for 1 week before everything is counted. This is part of the initial setup thing so it can always be changed by a vote if people want. I will edit the OP to reflect this. I like a lot of the ideas you proposed. First off, the government thing heavily depends on how far one is in school. Elementary and middle school obviously simplifies things while high school and college provide a ton more of the details and why things work. With that said, I definitely agree that something that includes everyone's voice and prevents a tyranny by the majority would be great. This is the global outpost where everyone is already a member so growth and size are definitely a big goal and consideration. Creating a district system would help organize the chaos and group like-minded people together. Once we get a location and server picked, I think your idea will be an important one to look at. It has been a couple of days so I propose we take a vote on the server. Remember, you should quote the text in question and say whether you vote for or against it. The text in question:
(don't take this too seriously ) I think you guys may know a little about politics irl but I fear you miss out on some important points when talking Minecraft politics. You see... The whole thing is very simple: he who controls the creepers controls the lands. So all you have to do is search for creeper spawn eggs and after you have around 3 stacks you'll be unstoppable. "What's that, you don't agree with me? OH dear, look at that: 10 creepers coming your way, how did that happen?!", and in no time people will realize that without your support they'll have a blast It's the best form of Minecraft politics there is! Another thing is to dig up gold and diamonds and then promise them to players when they support and follow your ideas, especially during votes. Then, after those votes you whip out those creepers eggs again and you'll have gained a purely democratic win without any major economic costs Of course you do need to be careful for players who might see you and press F2 to expose you for the tyrant you are. But even that can be solved: all you need now is to get into contact with the Deadly creeper assassination squad, run by someone named Vill, and they'll take care of your problems for you. I think someone even made a movie from that Aaaanyway... I'm not too sure the staff would appreciate these approaches, so it might be best to ignore this post and forget I ever wrote it
I agree with the idea of districts. Kinda. As I said before, I think the areas should be flexible and fluid, and ways open to change. Except maybe have permanent lighting. Just plop down some cobble wall/sea lantern things, and protect the sea lantern part. Anyway, I think having districts would be cool. Like, if we have an area around a ravine. That's the Ravine District. Or maybe have it to certain themes, like the municipal district and the entertainment district. Like hermitcraft! I just think it shouldn't be very specific areas, just a vague location that may or may not be expanded. For sure have a farming area, to contain the lag. Also, I propose that no friendly mobs will be allowed to be killed unless stated otherwise. And I vote yes for 9.
From my experience, you'll never get enough people separated into different areas for a representative system like that to work. I think what is better is a proportional system, where there's only one electorate, but with multiple seats up for election. That way the representation is proportional according to the different groups available. You can still split the design of the outpost into different parts, where certain groups may gather and it could end up a bit like you plan. But I don't think it can be effectively designed around that. EDIT: I also just realised I have an outpost on smp9 already, so that's actually not a great server for me.
once 607 updates the spreadsheet: smp4,5,6 and 9 will have the same amount of people that would be inconvenienced. 9 up as the vote I vote for 9. mba I would be happy to help you put in a transportation system to get to the outpost from yours if its not on the other side of the map, which would obviously mean your current transportation plus what we put together for this outpost would be the most efficient way. :/ Is your other outpost really far out?
I've actually found an alternative. I've discussed with the other (few) members and we'd be happy to offer our outpost on smp9 to this to give it a head start. There's plenty of free space nearby, plus already developed areas.
Thanks for voting. Could you edit your posts to include the text of what is being voted on? Something like what Kytula did would be good. The reason for this being that a week from now there will likely be even more posts and it will be much easier to find everyone who voted if ctrl-F can be used to quickly get to them. Otherwise it would require rereading every post to ensure nothing was missed. That would help a ton. Could you give us an idea as to where it is on the live map or some screenshots?
1 week seems a bit long to me, that has the potential to slow things down quite a bit. Sure, some more important or more complex decisions might take that long, but I think for many cases, 3 or 5 days should be enough. I agree. Who tallies? I suppose the person who proposed whatever is being voted on, and other players can check if they want.
