I have a feeling that my posts above are either too long or not colorful enough, so only few read them :/ I'll try to shorten myself , but some things are just not trivial, you know? No - because in order to pay off the investment of 1M, you have to use the wild vault like between 1,400 and 2,000 times. In other words, a single use of the wild vault is worth about 500r to 700r. 5k would be far too expensive. If the wild vault would cost 500r per use, then it would most probably be cost-neutral compared to railway cost and travel time. You would save some traveling time for that price, but you wouldn't profit much overall. So, if the price would be 500r per use, and the value is about 600r, then you would have to use it like 10,000 times to pay off the initial investment of 1M. If you've made 10,000 mining trips, you've collected stuff worth about 25M rupees.
The idea of the wild vault is a reward/perk for dedicating that much time and money towards it. Paying to use it would be more convenient then walking to and from, but why should they have to? "Oh it's not fair. They're just going to get more money because of it. It's OP" They made a 1,000,000 rupee investment. They deserve it. Basically what I'm saying is they already paid 1,000,000. Can they make that back easier then other people? Well yes, but it's still going to take time. Here's an example: Let's say someone is using a Fortune 3 pick. With that, on average I might get roughly 10-15 diamond per day constantly mining. So let's just say you get 13 each day. Let's price each diamond at 45. If 9 is a diamond block then each diamond block is worth 405 rupees. It takes about 39 stacks at that price to meet 1,000,000 rupees. (1,010,880) 39 stacks of diamond blocks is 22,464 diamond. At 13 a day (This doesn't account for "slow days" or days you don't play), it would take roughly 1,728 days to earn it back. 1,728 days is 4.7 years. 1,728 days is 57.6 months (30 day months) 1,728 days is 246.8 weeks. I only posted those 3 to give a better idea of how much time that is. Sure you may find more than that per day, but that's still going to take a while. Depending on how often you put stuff in the vault though, 500 per time would really add up. Whenever I go mining, if I find Diamond or Emerald, I rush back to my "Base" area and put it in my ender chest. So I'd be /wild vault*ing quite a bit. There are items worth more than diamond, and a lot of items worth less. This would just make transferring items back more convenient for some people. It would take a long time to earn it back though. Adding on more fees to me seems unnecessary. *Little side note* I may have done the math wrong so I apologize in advance.
We actually agree on this I've written above that, if there is no fee per use - that one would need to use it like 2,000 times - in the most efficient way (!) - to pay off the 1M investment. I just don't think it is about "deserving," but about having an option to invest / pay something and save time. If the price is right, there is neither profit nor loss - or there is some profit in the future after the investment has been paid off. My -> calculations were based on what I think is the most efficient transport with / without wild vault respectively - for an experienced player. We have an interesting question here: Different playing styles and different experience levels would imply different use of the wild vault, and value of its use would possibly be far higher to less experienced players. If the initial cost would be low, and if there would be an adequate use fee (possibly about 500r) - then this would benefit novice players much more than experienced players (who know how and/or have already built infrastructure to travel efficiently). If the initial cost is high, then - - novice players can not afford it - it makes sense to purchase it only if you really make many mining trips, if you would use it many times If the initial cost is very high, or if the use fee is high, then only intermediate players could profit, because experienced players and players who have some transport infrastructure already have efficient means of transport. ... etc. Little side note: Take a silk touch pick (instead of the fortune pick) and the ender chest with you. You save travel (running back and forth) time, you save space in the inventory and ender chest, you can break the ore if and when you need it (or when you need xp) with the fortune pick in the town. BTW, you calculated only with diamonds, but when mining, it makes sense to take all stone/cobble and all ores and sell. (... to 12162 @ smp6 )
I say deserving because they earned a whopping 1,000,000. That alone is a pretty big feat ( A lot of players made a 2013 resolution to earn 1 mil) and earning that took time and effort. I guess "Deserving" isn't the best word. They paid 1,000,000 for it, so adding more fees just seems a little useless to me. I used to do that, but on some occasions I died by lava while holding it. Skeleton hit me in Lag'd in Logged off, and when I got on I was in lava (seriously happened. Lost a Eff 5 pick alone with a stack and a half of diamond ore) So now I just keep it in a safe place. The reason I didn't account for the other ores and blocks is because using the most expensive example shows the least amount of time. If you account for the others, 4.7 years is quite a bit lower. I guess to summarize/add a little to all my thoughts: 1 million is a lot more then most players will get. Not all players with 1,000,000 will purchase this page. If everyone had the page I would understand the fees, but the majority of people won't, so there's no point in adding them.
I don't really think that the plan is to introduce it so that it can be paid off (although it'd be another aspect that would be fun to try and complete), I think that it's initial release would be targeted at people who 1) have a lot of rupees, so a sink and 2) who can show off, say "I have a wild vault!" give them something to achieve as I said in on of my first posts - if this new version ever comes out.
If we're thinking of it as a sink instead of trying to earn the money back I think it'd be safe to assume there's a fee for use. Even if the fee was 500, I know I wouldn't pay for it. 1,000,000+500x=Not worth it (X = amount of times used) I don't think I'm the only player who would choose to keep the money instead of paying for the vault and access to it. 1,000,000 is already a big sink. Any X amount (unless under 50) isn't worth it to me. With the showing off thing: People who try and brag about what they accomplish don't really impress me. I'm not saying don't take pride in accomplishments, but if you do something just to brag, you're way too worried about image
Of course, it's not going to be introduced just as a sink but I think that's definitely a main factor. Who knows, if the ideas comes back around and it only works in claimed wild land (free use), I think that'd be pretty cool
Haha I'd hate it if it only worked in claimed land. I suck at fighting, so earning the dragon egg is out of question . I'd have to buy them. I vote nay.
This is indeed a very interesting point. Yes, people do not buy (expensive) things because of their economical value but more because of some emotions and to show off. Even I, mostly being a sober reckoner, have 5 nether stars above the shop gate Why? Perhaps because woman like it I think there is even more to it, I'll write few lines to the "Rupees for Membership" thread later today.
Designing something just as a sink won't work ... naturally. You would need to force people to pay it despite of being a loss for them which is not nice. Well, not nice at all. For a part like with the lock fee...
This pretty sums up the possibilities. I said 5k, but now Im thinking of it again thats quite a lot. I was thinking, why not a bit of both? For example: 500k to earn wildvault, 500r to use it everytime. 1m is alot, 500k is a lot aswell. I was trying to make a point by saying that you should pay for how much you use it. I believe that way more players can use this feature, while draining a lot more money out of the economy! Why would a starting price and a use price be succesful? High startprice: Immediate rupee sink Normal 'use' price: Constant rupee sink (long term!) Wild vault will obviously be used to transport goods to town. The more goods in town, the lower the price. This is contradictory against the inflation caused by daily vote bonus (700r). Therefor the prices will be more stable. Voila. The solution for inflation is here!
I think over all if this is open to everyone, then the cost should be a figure that all can achieve and be able to pay. Saying 1mill for it is like asking some players the impossible, because there is no way they could ever afford to buy it as they are unable to play that much to be able to earn 1 mil. I do like the idea of the wild vault page, but I think it needs to be done another way. Not everyone has 1 mil or the potential of earning it, it is a ridiculous amount to pay and only a limited number of players could ever afford it, or hope to afford it. Let me put it this way if I had 10 mil then I would be happy to pay 1 mill for this as it would just add another thing to the game for me. I will never make anything from this so there is no advantage other then I can take more stuff back to town. If you just want a rupees sink hole then just offer players the oportunilty to buy pink dragon eggs exclusive limited editions from EMC for 2 mil each. If on the other hand you want to add something to the game that all players can use, then make this vault page at a price that everyone can or could eventually afford to pay. 100k is a fair price for it, that at least is a figure players could eventually afford to pay and make a return on. If you make things to hard to get then most players will just give up, also after taking the time to eventually earn that much how many would really pay it to have the vault page. Either make it part of the game in a way that all players can eventually use and benefit from or don't do it at all. At 1 mil there is no benefit and with the possibility of an additional cost it would make it even less worth the cost. I would also propose this, make it free for all. Yes you heard me FREE then make a charge for its use based on an average price of a chest of cobblestone. This would make it fair for all players no matter how rich or poor and all could benefit. If on the other hand this is something exclusive to rich and long time players as a loyalty thing then I think it should be marked as such. As a long time player of 6 months you have earned the right to have a vault page for the wild, If you chose to purchase this the cost will be 100k to buy it with an additional charge of ($xr) to use it.
Very good point. Even if it is possible (for example with about 400 mining trips), I'd say it seems impossible for the majority of members. Yes, the point is - they can feel special and have something as recognition of their achievement, and it has no effect on game-play. I think initial price like 100k is a good idea, so you can get this option after supporting for some time (either with real money or with stuff and services for supporters), and after playing and making experiences for some time. But adequate use fee would still be good to balance the value of it. I second that, along with a though, that a feature that saves time and perhaps carries some status symbol might be interesting to a group of players even if its use is economically not justified (and it should not be economically justified for that purpose - to be luxury), but I don't think wild vault would be adequate perk for such intention. As stated above, I think some initial price is not a bad thing. In this case, the use price should be set so that it is a bit higher than it's real economical use value for very experienced player (which doesn't necessarily mean rich nor poor). According to my calculation, that would be around 600r per transport, or around 300r per use. Even better: 6r per used (touched) slot. Less experienced players will profit from it, and more experienced players will have the option to use it as a luxury feature and save some travel time. Adjusting the fees according to change in prices is necessary to keep balance, I'd take a mix of resources to calculate a "consumer price index".
