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Krysyy not to bash on anyone, especially you because I LOVE our staff, but earlier in this thread I think that it was handled in an unprofessional manner. I don't mean to bash, as I love every single one of you guys, but I think this is the one time I've seen our staff act out of anger, more than using the professionalism I've seen from them for as long as I could remember

Aikar mentioned that as a reply earlier in the thread I believe. It had to do with the uncertainty of Justin being around. When Aikar started DTs is when Justin started showing less available time in EMC and Aikar had to take complete control of the backend things, leaving him with no time for it. Things are back on track now with more dev help.

Ooh thanks Automn and Jeremy ^_^ That is all i got.

I don't see anywhere that staff acted unprofessionally or out of line. You have to realize that our staff is just as passionate about EMC as everyone else and we all have personal feelings. As long as the staff doesn't act out of line or start bashing people themselves, I don't feel we need to prevent them from being themselves or forcing them to be who they aren't.

The only area where I can see it getting borderline was when the enigma dude came in and start being out of control. When that happens, I'm not going to be so harsh when the staff defends our community, even if their voice gets a bit, heated.

But you have your opinion of professionalism. Each person has a different view on everything which is one thing people on this server need to realize. I've sat and read where people have voiced opinions, and then someone comes right out and lashes back at them. telling them they are wrong, this works this way and that works another. That is what makes the community feel like it's not okay to say things in public. They are afraid. that's not good for anyone.

Sometimes we won't give you a favorable answer. If you show me a red block and tell me it's green, I'm going to argue with you that it's red and tell you that you're wrong. Sometimes things are how they are for a reason and we can't change it. It doesn't mean we don't like you for being wrong or want you to be afraid to ask.

You aren't understanding my point. Sometimes, what you think is right and what I think is right are two different things. But yet, when people voice what they think is right/wrong they get criticized. I've had multiple multiple people that I've tried recruiting into EMC that have told me No because they get on the forums, look at just a couple threads, watch as people argue back and forth, and do not join.

Any large community will have heated debates. That not only is a good thing for growth, but helps make us stronger as a community. I feel that we do a good job at keeping the debates under control and moderating them fairly when they get out of control. If you have some examples to show me otherwise, please feel free to pm me.

Criticism is part of growth. It is necessary as long as it isn't rude. Everyone's opinions are important. On this thread, please try to keep this something as a way to grow.

I've spoken a bit with Bunker and I think the problem comes down to how certain things are perceived. What you consider to be an acceptable level of professionalism, and how things might look to an outsider (someone not already familiar with EMC). Specific examples might help illustrate the point, but again this isn't an issue where the intent is to single anyone out for bad behavior.

I don't think anyone here wants the mods to stop being themselves, or staff to start delivering canned responses in cold-fish legalese, without a hint of personality. By the same token however, anyone promoted to mod level or above has to be keenly aware of the fact that anything said reflects not just on them, but on EMC as a whole.

Equinox, i would probably be careful if you are going a like spree on a thread this controversial. Read before you like.

#finalpostormaybenot

That's where I come in.

It's Like the surveillance scandal in the US.

+1

Honestly, thats exactly what I thought when I first read this haha..

This thread was a little overdue, some people may have crossed the line here, but I think that the staff was able to gather enough information from what was submitted.

Personally I didn't like the way EMC transitioned from Justin, to Aikar but after a few months I've seen the potential Aikar has for the community, and no longer have any grudges/problems with him : DDD

Everyone had an opinion that needs to be respected. Now whether the person who makes the opinion is misguided or disrespectful, that's a different story.

In my experience All of the Staff are Prompt, Respectful, Polite, Non Judgmental, and Well Versed in the Rules.. I'm fairly certain that is the definition of professional.
I guess what I am really trying to say is: I am confused now.

I believe what is being referred to are some of the posts showed a little bit more personal feeling than they probably should.

I have been guilty of this before, maybe even in this thread. HOWEVER, as long as conversations are civil and hold merit, even if I disagree with them, I personally give it my all to explain everything, my point of view, EMC's point of view, try to figure out what we can do better, and let people know that.

Though, if you do come in and ATTACK my community, sorry, but thats when the gloves are off. Many staff members have demonstrated here, and other places, that if you do it the proper way, we are open to criticism, in all honesty, we love it. Threads like this one, make me love being a mod. Its like I was designed mentally to be able to look at these things and search for the meaning. Figure out where the line is that we can reach to get better.

Does our personal opinion show through from time to time? I would hope so. I would hope that what is most seen here, is that the staff here, care about EMC. We care about EMC so much, that we are willing to break our staff reins to protect it.

Though, one thing to keep in mind. No matter how long staff are here. No matter how long EMC is around, its a learning experience. We can look at every situation and try to relate it to another one, but we can never predict what will happen, we can never know exactly what steps to take. But every time, we take the wrong steps, we walk away with a better map.

I can guarantee you, there are thousands of times, where a staff member wants to be a regular player, for just one minute, just to say something. But, we hold our positions. Try to water down to something that is acceptable for staff to say. We even ask each other... often 'is it ok that I say this'. Very few things here are posted haphazardly, and we do our best to stay 'Professional'... if a little bit of 'us' makes its way through occasionally, I do not think it is the worst thing. If it were down to just being 'professional' by a hard definition, we could design a bot that just runs through the forums issuing PERFECTLY professional responses to everything... though I do not think the community would enjoy that to much.

Just wanted to say a few more things based on what I've seen in the last part of this thread. (see quoted posts in the spoiler )

(Cchiarell6914 I know you said you posted this when you were tired and in bad mood, so you'll have to correct me on how serious your posts were)

These posts seem to suggest that some players are afraid of voicing their opinion or liking certain posts because they're afraid of being put on some sort of watchlist by the staff for what they've said or who they're associated with. I don't know if Bunkerllama was speaking for himself or expressing the sentiment of other players he knows as well.
If my original post ever gave anyone the impression that staff is systematically secretly watching players who are critical of certain things on EMC, and that staff would be intentionally doing so, I just want to say that that was not what I wanted to convey to other players. That idea about staff is not true and staff members have repeatedly said they're not watching people for fun or stalking people.

More importantly, I think that the way staff has responded on this thread also shows they have the best intentions, and they're not attacking people personally but discussing with you based on your content not on what your player name is or who you're associated with. They're also human though, so they may have not perfectly phrased something, leading players to misinterpret something for a personal attack/lashing out. In that case, if you feel they may have worded something too strongly or you interpreted something as personal attack, it is best to discuss that with that specific staff member so the air may be cleared and who knows it probably was a complete misunderstanding. Staff members can make mistakes too and will admit to that if they understand something went too far.
I also suggest critically considering whether the points you're trying to make are logical and make sense, or whether they're based on some underlying personal feelings caused by something else.

As for the example I mentioned in my original post of the staff member showing up at my res, this person was not trying to do any harm and was just trying to help out in our conversation. I described that example to show what I believed was a flaw in the design of Square that could be misused in the future by a moderator with ill intent. That was all. I wasn't hinting at any secret behind our backs badmouthing of players by the staff.

<-*you make me curious now*