Effort to implement and deliver sort of... Wild updates fixes problems with existing systems (Griefing/Stealing) while extending and improving a currently popular gameplay style on our SMP servers. SMP is still going to be our primary focus, as it is our core, so of course we are going to favor updates to the SMP. The wild updates are currently batched into chunks, with the possibility that we can roll them out in stages (give goodies progressively instead of making you wait for 1 large update) The shop system and PVP system is going to be a 1 large lump sum delivery, there is no easy way to segment those. Would also prefer to really finish off updates to the SMP (aka shop) before pushing on to the PVP Server, as the PVP server is essentially an entirely new "foundation". Different plugins and overall architecture... It's easier on us to not switch back and forth between the platforms, concentrate on 1 then move to next for a bit... Plus, I'm in the same boat as Justin... I'm learning Java + Bukkit doing this, so I would like to gain more knowledge about Java so I can design the foundation in a better way when I got a bit more experience (the foundation and style for EMC SMP is already set and will be going along that, but we have a clean state for PVP to do things better)
I can see your point in focusing on SMP. But honestly,I think griefing and stealing in the wild are more minor then the shop. And even taking SMP is the core in mind, I STILL think it is less important then the PvP servers. I know, your all for living in the wild, which is the main reason you make these updates. However, for one, the one I ALWAYS stick by, is that any buildings in the wild, or stuff for that matter, is unsafe. I understand wanting to add protection, and I am for that, to a small degree. But it isn't really anything I would be crapping my pants over. Secound of all, we have a town. If you start adding more and more protetcion to the wild, eventually, the town will become rather desolate. I have seen this happen on another server, since it added the abbilty to claim land in the wild. I doubt we will go that far, but it is still worth to keep in mind. Lastly, EMC is a town based server. This means, instead of pushing for constant wild updates, they should look for more town things to update. You still need to update the wild, just not at a very fast rate. And we ALL know a specfic mod is always pushing for wild updates. *Cough* Aikar *Cough* . I also just realized how unrequired that wall of text was. Oh, and when is that PvP thread coming up? It was supposed to be done two days ago.
Griefing and stealing is never a minor thing. People can put weeks of effort into something that 1 person then comes along and destroys in a day. It CRUSHES hope and desire to continue playing, and generally results in the player giving up. There is absolutely n oway this is 'minor'. Taking a defensive stance to completely block the ability to grief (well to the best extent possible) is an important action. The shop currently 'works' as is. As a few players have mentioned, the shop updates isnt something the players was asking for... It's something were choosing to do to make the experience better. However wild updates is something players ask for... Wild updates also opens us up to a door of new players, where as the shop system does not. (Reasoning: many players will not play on EMC because 60x60 is not enough room, and building in the wild is not safe. Our shop system isnt vastly different from other servers, so its not like players are saying "omg it takes too long to shop im going elsewhere") Well that's the idea, that soon it won't be unsafe, as long as you protect it I've already brought up the exact issue of avoiding town becoming desolate and i'm already designing things around that issue to avoid it becoming a problem. Our system will be alot different than other servers with claiming land. We will still have necessity to be in town, and there is also those players who do not wish to deal with dieing, fall damage, monster spawning and creepers giving hugs while building, so down will never be dead... That's the thing, EMC is evolving Our players want the wild, they want to live out there, not just me. Look at the LLO, it has grown larger than I ever even saw my own wild community growing, and it is doing well. We can not deny that players want this gameplay, so we are going to deliver updates to cater to both gameplay styles. I kinda already posted the rough summary of the pvp gameplay in this thread already... I'm having 2nd thoughts on posting more details than that as things could change since its a good bit of ways off..
In summary, EMC is changing/evolving for the better. We are going to bring massive updates that make us stand out a mile away from the other competition. We are going to deliver an experience like no other... Be ready
Well, I don't why I didn't snip all of this. But if your crying about getting griefed in the wild, its ALWAYS your fault. You had the town option. So, thats why I consider it a minor issue; its the own players risk. If you make ANY version of claiming in the wild, you will have screwed over the town. And probably the wild as well, since people will just get their noob ring and claim land around the spawn, and make walls. I understand the shop system. However, if your trying to mold EMC into a wild expeirence, things are going to change..... Vastly. Tons of new members will come, and yes, tons of new members will leave. Its an entirely different style of play. And if your adding protection to the wild, then what exactly are you going to add to the town? And Ill compare town to EMC. It has ALOT of members, but a large chunk is inactive. If EMC was mostly active members, nobody would ever be able to get on. LLO is the same way. It has alot of members, but alot of them have left or became inactive. So, your catering to about 10% of EMC, little more or less, alot more often then the other 90%. I like wilderness survival, in a safe setting. But it just doesn't mix with EMC very well.
The problem is though that some people like aspects of EMC's towns and their safe haven and ALSO like living on the edge and setting up a base camp in the wild to mine and live. It has been proven that certain chemicals like dopamine are release by the body when aroused by thing such as excitement, food, music and such. This gives us a good feeling. If there was only 1 place to live on EMC... the town than once you run dry of ideas or get bored of it than guess what... YOU LEAVE if there was a place to build, survive, thrive, and possibly die than all of those players that are quitting are going to stay. The reason LLO is sp great is because has such great community aspects and infrastructure. If you added stability to all places of the wild trying to prevent the root cause of people leaving the empire that are normally wild dwellers than the amount of traffic here will rise, more people will come, and the EMC experience will become better for all.
60x60 is not enough for many people... Community is the reasoning for playing multiplayer games, and town can not provide the platform to do things like the LLO. So players took risk and built in the wild. It's not 100% their fault they got griefed, as the other option to be 'safe' from grief is to not play EMC and play on a private server. Why would we want that? Minecraft is about building, and once you hit that 60x60 boundry... your stuck. This is a big deal to many players. So those players are given the option of moving to the wild or leaving EMC... And were going to accomodate their needs. This is already thought of and handled... You will not be able to create walls around spawn or anywhere near spawn... It will be VERY RARE that you actually even run into someone else's claimed land. We're not PUSHING people to the wild... we are looking to add experiences and standards for those who choose to. Look at where EMC is today. We tell people the wild is not safe, theres no grief protection, and theres risk of reset. But people still build there.... How much more reason should we need to know the players WANT to play in the wild. Jeremy stated: However, we still have many things we can do to town... Things like updating residence to support newer flags, adding more "sign based" additions like RTS, Access and shop etc. For example, CraftBook... New shop updates coming... putting /fun on all servers. Improving Nether Spleef to be more automated. Also, don't forget theres now 2 developers for EMC... _I_ will be working on the wild stuff... Justin will likely be focusing on Town once the code rewriting is done. Our goal here is to make EMC grow, expanding the wild offers us more opportunity to grow emc than making tiny tweaks to the Town, so it makes no sense for us to both put all of our effort into Town... Town will still be getting the same love, its just now EMC has the capability to do more things at once with more than 1 developer.
Well. My fault for starting an uneeded arguement.I enjoy argueing though, so I'll just keep on going. Aikar, if you keep pointing to that a minority of players build in the wild,or at least on a large scale, therefore that is for the best. You seem to do that. Assume you and a minority are the majority. I do that sometimes too. Oh, and I meant comparing the LLO to EMC, not the town. Idiotic typo. -.-. And what exactly is the point of building something amazing, if nobody is gonna come by and see it? And if you need bigger, become a gold member and get a utopia res. But people don't since they either don't wanna pay, OR not enough people come by to visist there. Ugh. I am having trouble to argue without enough information. -.-
please use new lines lol... i'm having to break up your post >_> I don't fully understand what your trying to say... but overall yes the wild players are a minority, but with the updates we are working on, more players from town will then be willing to enter the wild and colonize some land. There will be even more groups like the LLO popping up. That's the thing, with protection groups now have the freedom to enable others to visit their outpost safely to see it.. There will be methods of travel to get to the outpost instantly, so you can very easily setup a portal on your residence and open it to the public to come visit...
Here's the problem I see with having a PvP server. Bob plays PvP and Normal EMC Rob plays PvP and Normal EMC Todd Doesn't play PvP but plays normal EMC Bob owns Rob in a PvP match on PvP.Empire.Us Rob get's mad and heads back to Normal EMC Bob also joins Normal EMC having got bored of PVP for the day. Rob is really annoyed and angered by Bob for killing him in PvP There's a lot of shouting and it turns into a huge argument that includes the normal - He used Aim-bot and many other things. What it sounds like to me Aikar is your thinking it will be completely isolated. There will be a lot of tensions within normal EMC which will negatively affect the game. In your Dream fantasy world it will all run perfectly - The truth of the matter is, It wont - You'll also get a sharp rise in PvP on Normal EMC and no wilderness update will prevent that unless you want people to be immune to lava, fire, TnT, drowning, Falling, In which case just make people creative. PvP has no place in EMC if we want to keep it friendly and a nice place to play.
Again with the strong pessimistic views This is a worst case scenario that is simply not going to happen 1) If it does, it'll be on such rare incidents and well simply ban them 2) Our PVP match style does not correspond to the way you state. Theres no reason to get angry for dieing in a PVP match because thats going to happen to you every few minutes by everyone. If someone really gets angry that the enemy team fought back and didnt just let them win, they will get a ban.. 3) See 2, but seriously were not going to have some influx of stalking and lava bukkit on SMP "because you won in PVP" 4) Who is Todd? Just look at other games like WoW... People who opt in to PVP on a PVE Server don't immediately go raging and trying to attack their opponent afterwards, and that game has 10 MILLION people playing it. You opt into pvp knowing its a healthy competition. It's absolutely not the same thing as trying to play SMP with pvp enabled, and you get PVP'd when you were not expecting it.
Not pessimistic, From experience. I've seen it happen many times on other games - Which used a similar sort of system - Head into the PvP area, Get killed - Heck, I got threatened for 2 days when I killed some guy in PvP because of his bad ping. How do you know this? Have you ever tried it was 46K people? So you'll just ban anyone who get's annoyed by a system that frankly is almost designed to piss people off. Seems legit. See above >.< - You have to remember we have people aged between 6 - 9 on here, It would be extremely confusing for them to go from were PvP is perfectly fine to were you must not do it. I was going to add him in somewhere but never got around to it. I've never played WoW so I can't reply to this but 10 Million people pvping is alot different to 5/6/7000 people I would never be able to find and annoy someone after they killed me if there was 10million, but 60 in a world, Big difference. You opt into PvP because you feel like your missing out if you don't. You seem extremely persistent to keep these things going when people have pointed out countless times the flaws.
There isn't gonna be any nameplates.... XD Plus, why exactly do we want to keep all of thoise 6-9 year old brats anyway? I am fine with a mature 6 year old. Yet to see one though. Aikar, what I am saying, is that you.... ALMOST always assume what you want is the best. Honestly, alot of people do that to. And if peope can /tp to a base in the wild, that takes away the vanilla aspect, just like the /tpa or /back command. And EMC is meant to be vanilla, is it not?
No. We'll ban people that break the rules. I have a group of friends that play PVP games all the time on Xbox. Pretty much every day. Yes, we get frustrated. However, not once have I ever "stalked someone" and felt the need to harass them because of the game. If I HAD, I would deserve to get banned.
We started as a town based server and we are rocking that world of Minecraft. To this day we haven't had any updates that were designed for a while. All updates for the first year of our existence was for town. I'd say it's about time we start doing some wild stuff to spice it up a bit.
Exactly! We're not going to stop production on an idea because a few minor people might go overboard with it. That happens in anything. We'll just handle those that DO and let the rest keep having their fun.
you cannot say that new players are lazy and don't read and then say that the new shop system will be taken advantage of by the new players. if they are lazy and don't read then they won't know how to use the new shop system and thus won't use it.
I think Herbrin3 is right about the "core". I thought EMC was a collaborative community. If PVP is added, we'll start to turn into one of those anarchy servers.
