Hello, This has been a conversation throughout the years, and I would like to hear the thoughts of the community now a days. One of my favorite "procrastination" activities is exploring town in elytra, and the most annoying thing is to encounter move false reses. I have a proposed change, for reses, owned by players, which have not been active in 180days, or 365+ days, their move, glide, and tp flags would reset to their default state (true). This would not follow derelict protection, as there are many inactive players which have permanent protection or other players vote for them, but last seen date. I understand that some active players might want to have privacy in their res and have move false, or glide for specific builds. But for reses that are inactive, it doesn't make sense to me to leave them as "black holes" within town, where it blocks normal player movements/tourist, for the "will" of players of time's past. PS, would also help to make this situation occur to reses owned by scripted accounts, which login for 3 minutes every 29 days. What do you all think? Are there any reses, that might be negatively affected by this?
I think this is a great idea, especially for large builds that one might want to fly around. There is some sort of huge flying airship next to smp8's spawn. Absolutely gigantic, but for the longest time many parts of it had move flag off...so you couldn't even fly the length of the runway. It was kind of morbidly satisfying when someone derelict claimed the center of it, because at least now you can fly over the other parts. So yes, I think this is a good idea but it's the sort of idea that will get held up in red tape.
I don’t do much flying in town but having a reset to default for inactivity over a year for move and glide could be cool. Just because move is off doesn’t stop people from claiming a res. So having those two flags go to default after a year seems fine to me..
+1 simply to be able to claim derelict residences. If you have move flag off, nobody can forceclaim easily.
if they isnt disable they would be force claimed, and all of their effort into that plot is GONE forever. so, to protect their land from force claim they have to disable move perms some ppl who would like to leave for a while for relax, and when they comeback, their plot is gone. it's not undoable, however. Just by a new player. and of course, res forceclaim is still viable even on move perms disabled plot. ikr, it's good for seamlessly flying through werid move perms disabled plots and those likes to fly would feel bit discomfort
The move flag is not a way to prevent derelict-ship. You can claim any derelict res with /res forceclaim ####. Sure it may take 30 seconds longer because you need to find the res number, but if a person is determined to claim that res, it will be claimed, regardless if the move flag is on or off. I would argue leaving the move flag disabled is even more of a magnet to get /res forceclaim-ed. As you see in Dras’s example: Having the Move Flag FALSE was part of the reason it got claimed, and it didn’t stop the res from getting claimed. I think it’s general EMC culture/behavior to avoid claiming historic reses. If you don’t want to loose your stuff, you only have to login once a month (12 times a year!) if players don’t show that minimal effort, then their res should be gone. If you go derelict, you are more likely to be claimed by the regular derelict system than force-claimed anyways. If you are having issues with protection, try to vote which extends timer to 7 days (or ask a friend to do so), use supporter vouchers (one month of iron supporter, which can be easily obtained for ~50k rupees, is effectively a 60 day derelict protection voucher(99% sure on this, has been a long time since I tested, otherwise just 30 days)) or ask SS for a derelict protection leave, in case you know that you are going away for a prolonged period and won’t be able to login easily. or just build in a outpost at the /frontier which doesn’t reset, and you even have more space there.
So I'm going to deconstruct your question after the conversation we had ingame. What is the derelict policy? New players have a shorter derelict protection, so I won't cover that, but the main concept is, players must login or "participate" in EMC in a form or another for the server to know you are interested in continuing to play on EMC. Whats the easiest way to do this? Login! It doesnt matter if its just 3 seconds, if you login, your derelict timer will reset to a full 30 days, until the system or players can start claiming. What are other ways to gain derelict protected status? 1. Vote! Voting in any link with your correctly spelled username will grant you 10 days of timer. This means if you are away you can vote every Saturday and still be derelict protected. However that is the minimum, and accidents can happen and you may forget. So it is recommended to vote on different sites and on multiple days to avoid this. 2. Supportership Status - By supporting EMC financially you are actively stating that you want to continue to play on EMC. All supporters are protected from derelict status (except if banned) 3. Permanent Derelict Protection Vouchers - These cost anywhere between 1.1m-1.5m in the market depending on the seller (or $125 for real money). It is a big amount and a big goal for many players, but it is achievable with commitment to the server. 4. Extraordinary situation - SS protection: What is the res claiming system? The server allows for res claiming at any given moment in time after any account enters derelict status. Why do we need this system? The smp residences are in a constant cycle as a server to acquire new players everyday. New players start the cycle by creating the demand of "new available reses." How does the server satisfy this demand? with supply of open residences (you can see amount of open reses each smp has here). How does the server generate new open residences? 1. Automatic: If the server goes bellow the minimum number of reses (I believe it is 20 open reses, but couldn't confirm) the system begins a purging process to get above the minimum. This process resets/unclaims about 10 residences (Aikar 2019). Example: So if smp8 has 21 open residences, and two new players join, they would claim 2 of those new residences, leaving the available open reses at 19. The system would then trigger the auto-reclaim system, which would reclaim ~10 reses, leaving the total to about 29. The cycle in the example occurs on a daily basis on each server, and the system does have a priority in which it decides on how to choose the specific reses (I'll touch on that later) 2. Forceclaim: Any player with available /res slots can /res forceclaim derelict reses. Why? "If a player did force claim the res, then thats great. Means they specifically liked the location and got a plot they preferred more over another." -Aikar 95%+ (Probably 99%) of the Residence claims are done automatically by the system when new player joins, not by using the /res forceclaim command. Update Oct 25: Forceclaim - Forceclaim derelict timer vs. regular auto-claim derelict timer no longer are the same. If a player has been online within the past 180 days, they are considered protected from force-claim. If the account has not been seen in more than 6 months. This is an extensions from the force-claim system, and the 30 day auto-claim system did not change. Voting provides a 10-day derelict-protection for both claiming systems. Why isn't the town simply infinite/larger to remove derelict system? Many reasons, and this is mostly my opinion, and not from actual references but here is what I know: 1. EMC's custom Residence plugin, does not have an automated option. If town were to be expanded SS would be required to manually create new reses. 2. There is no real need. EMC's Residence cycle is fairly stable. It has its seasonal increases and decreases, however EMC's growth rate hasn't spiked enough to require such tasks 3. Waste of digital storage/resources. The derelict system, even though funky sometimes, does a good job in purging the "correct"/abandoned/empty reses. The derelict system saves resources for EMC, staff time and dev time. 4. Aikar: "we've had issues in the past where players voted for long abandoned players once a month just to keep their res from being derelict. It wasn't even the owner of the res voting. We have no way to verify who is voting for a player. We don't want people holding onto abandoned residences just because they dont want to see it go. If the player has left, then it needs to go." "This all boils down to "I don't even want to login, but I want you to hold my stuff anyways.". " And now to the specifics of what you asked... Will your residence delete exactly after your 30 days expire? Most likely not, if you are in a new account (Less than 30 days), the system will maybe target you first on a automatic claim for a new player join, but as you are older than 30 days you are grouped into the main group of players. The derelict system sorts derelict players by age, defined as Last_Login - JoinDate (Away time does not contribute to age). Example: Player 1: Joined 9 months ago left 3 months ago (Age 6 months) P2: Joined 9 months ago left 6 months ago (3m) P3: Joined 5 months ago left 1 month ago (4m) P4: Joined 2 years ago left 6 months ago (18m) Order in which the system would automatically claim is: P2,P3,P1 & P4 Again, this shouldn't be a real concern if you are interested in EMC, just login, play and enjoy it here. If you are that inactive to the point where the derelict system might claim your residence, plan for such cases!: Make it a habit to vote before going to work/school or get a friend to vote for you. Have access to the forums in your phone - to contact SS for help or friend to vote for you Keep really really important stuff in your /vault it doesnt go derelict If your res location is highly looked after (nice number: 17000, spawn reses, corner reses), you may want to consider to just move to a less risky address Have a good group of friends to get your back if you fall behind voting. Or just get buy with rupees or $ supportership for the time you want or permanent derelict protection. References https://empireminecraft.com/threads/undelete-res.79905/#post-1503323 https://empireminecraft.com/threads...-ins-to-force-claim.78033/page-2#post-1463377 https://empireminecraft.com/threads...erelict-limit-timer.76422/page-2#post-1431837 https://empireminecraft.com/threads...xtension-supporter-option.85264/#post-1600146 I'm no staff, and some of this information might be outdated, but it should be mostly accurate. chickeneer had a discussion session about derelict in the discord a few weeks ago, so some changes might come soon with that to make it easier for voting protection, but other than that it all should be good, at least from the publicly available information. This was the outcome of such discussion:
I really hope there aren't many people who put move false on their residence so that it would have less chance of being force-claimed... :/
Can you go up to height limit and fly over? I heard when things were updated with the new heights, claims didn't follow? I think, if someone doesn't want you on their res, you don't get to go on it. EMC touts playing your way. This is just one way to do so. Some folks just don't want peeps on their property XD And I know we can make the argument, well they're derelict, but if they randomly vote out of the blue, will this reinstate their preferred protections? If not, that could be an issue as well. I don't know. As a former admin on other servers, we valued a player's right to privacy. Even if they haven't been back. I get it's annoying. I mapped out all of SMP3 in town. Lots of move protected spots. And I did try a forceclaim using just the res number one time on a move false property behind +swap. Wouldn't let me do it. Kept saying I had to be standing on the property?
Well too an extent that could be considered accurate, but there are many buts… 1. If one where to fly at the height you suggest, it would be Y320+ . The ground would be outside of view distance and would just be fog 2. /res forceclaim !16060 - exclamation marks are used when you are outside the property to reference residences in commands (Also: /res !16060 Zomberina container t ; if I would like to give you perm flags while outside of it, such as while I’m exploring in the Wild) 3. If one where to glide accurately above roads, one would have to fly bellow Y124 as reses expand 2 blocks on all cardinal directions at that height. That means you are only able to traverse at decent heights (too high only fog, too low, you only see grass and small houses) while you are traveling in big roads As for reinstating flags, I wouldn’t really do so. I would just make it clear to players that move and glide flag, which impede movement to players (even when flying in a road, as I previously mentioned) are benefits for active members of the community. If you go derelict for a long time, you might loose such privilege. And if/when the player returns, just issue an message that: hey you’ve been away for too long, your move flags were defaulted to allow for player transit. Maybe via mail book As for privacy, there is very little of it in an internet community. Bad people will simply not follow rules if they wish to obtain something, and by that point when they are caught, probably have the information they wanted. Players should assume there is no real privacy, and thus not share sensitive info in public internet communities, such as EMC forums or servers… Don’t get me wrong, I know those flags might be really important to some players, but derelict players are different. I could just as easily force claim those reses, just for the sake of a nice flight; I would rather not as I always try to protect EMC history, so I’m simply suggesting a solution where I can have a good time flying, without being bothered by players who don’t even play EMC, and without the need to delete EMC history…
I believe your comment was already responded to but since I didn't see it done directly, then I will. You can get the res number from the live map or from a skeleton bone tapped on the res from the street. That's all you need to force claim a res. And yes, the computer uses age as one of the variables when it takes derelict res to clear, when it needs more open ones. I have watched neighboring res get reset time and time again after a week, new player joined and left. For the idea as a whole, the player set those perms. So if you want move off, it's gonna be off. If you want it on, message them. -1 It's Town, you dont take damage - it's just stark-raving-madly annoying - but no way to fix it. The repeated suggestion of having a "red line" or such around no fly res just isn't possible code-wise. So we fall down and have to take off again.
This is going to be the last post I make in this, unless someone directly ask for my reply. I guess the main point I want to argue for is that I believe it to be the best course of action for EMC to modify the move flag for uses from this point onwards. The guidelines regarding it should be tweaked to benefit active players vs old "promises" to inactive ones. And no, "it has been like that forever" shouldn't be a reason for keeping things the same way; Things and game design can evolve with more modern features for the better, even if it is deemed traditionally different. Firstly to answer my own question I posted in the OP. What reses could be potentially affected by this change? the only two situations where I could see it be harmful to the community, if the move flag where to be automatically defaulted today are: SMP9's stone generator - which is an old desgin since it was constructed a long time ago. Other reses which offer the same service use more modern designs which include res subzones If any secret/private clubs exists, and owner is derelict things could be potentially stolen if container is set to true, instead of specifically specifying permissions to members of such residence ..... Let's give some examples. Out of the 63 reses which conform the smp8 inner ring (ring surrounding event reses, and inner reses Addresses 16001-16064) 8 are move false; this might not seem like a big number, but it respresents over 12% of the reses in the spawn area. This is the place where most players, especially new players, go touristing across town (through the most common command of all... /spawn), if they so desire. Having those reses out of people reach seems like it is creating a bad image for EMC. Another, more extreme example... If we look at the South West Spawn Area of smp8 from /spawn to 8 reses out in both the West and South directions, 85%+ of the reses are controlled by only 3 different people. (Similar situations of organized neighborhoods/complexes occur throughout the different smps, in different locations). If all those reses, are set to move false, its creating deadzone of 25% of all the spawn area, on top of the other move false reses. And if set to move false for a prolonged period of time, I believe it to be more than likely to attract some sort of staff intervention to remove such predicament... I don't see that example scenario ever occurring, but I use it to make a point. That, the move false feature, could be potentially very harmful to EMC's image, and I don't believe it to part of its initial goals... nor is it part of the game design for inactive players to "grief" player movement for active ones. EMC, is play your way, but I believe a goal we all share is that we share our creations with each other, and the Move False flag is in direct opposition of that essential part of the EMC community. Yes, in some special situations having a global move flag could be useful, but 99% of those situations are relevant for active players, and mostly a temporary occurrence. Here I propose a few amendments/suggestions/alternative to my original idea, which should alliviate the minds of those concerned, while allowing for this change, since I truly believe it is a feature that shouldn't be in EMC (for inactive players) Change the agreement between the server and the player regarding the move flag... Currently - If you don't play in EMC for 30 days you have potential to loose everything you made in town... however if you survive the derelict policy, all things will remain the same... I would argue a more benefitial statement is the following... "If you would like to have a legacy in EMC, you should allow other players to transit through it", that seems like a simple enough "agreement" between players and the server, and is in parallel of EMC's community behavior. It would also replicate the /wild guidelines, where one can visit anyone's build by just exploring. From this point onwards, only allow move-flag false to be a subzone only flag (under a certain volume limit for the subzone; to avoid subzoning the whole res...). Exisiting ones will remain, and eventually be obsoleted, if they get res claimed. Create a hidden res subdivision that sections res by a height at Y100. Move, and Glide flags would become ignored at such height or higher. This would only fix the Flying in elytra issue, not the dead-zone issue. If the res has build+ or container + for everyone, then exclude it from the automatic change; offer a SS service to handle these, and update them with the sub-zones feature. Probably less than 10 in all of EMC If any admin of the residence is still active, continue to preserve move flag false. While also keeping in mind this... I am suggesting to change reses which have been inactive for over a long time / year! There are enough features which allow for custom privacy mechanics, from !privatereslocations to subzoning residence flags, all of the custom flags we have from (TP, shop, trade, etc...), to just being far away in the wild. I really don't see any argument to have a residence with a prolonged Move False flag, specially for inactive members. It might be a controversial opinion, and I hate that I'm saying this, but I would rather have those reses (which are inactive with move flag false) be manually purged by the derelict system, as in other different situations has occurred, than for them to stay in EMC. Even though it may seem counter-intuitive, I originally brought up this discussion to light again, since I trully believe it to be a damaging feature, and I want EMC to be better after this proposed changed. From creating a potentially negative image to new players, to sentencing EMC's active members to "movement griefing/impeding" by inactive members I believe it is time for a change in guidelines regarding the move flag.
