[DEBATE] Presidential Election - 2016 (closing Nov 22)

If by "worked" you mean "gave me brain cancer," then yes. It works. I could only stand the first couple minutes before I had to close it. Dear fluffin' god...

Hillary: "I've been extremely consistent."

But to be fair, most politicians have the consistency of jello, so it's not like this is any great shock.

*...wiggle wiggle wiggle...*

I couldn't watch the whole thing either. probably made it about four or five minutes in and was like... yeah I know this. I watched that far just to make sure it was what I thought it was. After her sniper fire STORIES I was just like... I can't listen to you anymore even if the video is showing how much of a liar and con you are.

highlights: hillary doesn't like gay people, she supports nafta and the tpp and she likes to talk about fake snipers. if someone else could finish the video feel free to enlighten us on what other ridiculous lies she was shown to be saying... ya know like that she didn't destroy criminal evidence in an investigation that would put you or me in prison for the rest of our life while she runs for president ;D

To be honest I don't know why people are getting on Hillary for lying, she did that thing where she released the information by uh "accident" but it's not like EVERY POLITICIAN IN HISTORY hasn't lied to get where they were in a democracy. That's politics for you.

"...but it's not like EVERY POLITICIAN IN HISTORY hasn't lied to get where they were in a democracy..."

Thank you for remembering the past. It looks like most of the population seem to be blind, for the most part, at this kind of stuff. (I personally believe it's because she's a woman; the reason that she's being given such a hard time...)

You kids amaze me *facepalm*

NO. IT IS NOT.
And I don't hate Obama because he's black, either. That train of thought needs to die right here and now.

EDIT:
Let me be a little more clear. The "Oh, it's because she's a woman" argument is a **** diversion tactic that distracts from any and all legitimate grievances against her, while simultaneously casting the opposition as uncouth bigots and backwards-thinking morons. Maybe Trump fits that bill, but to anyone who still has most of their cerebral function intact, the "she's a woman" argument is fluffin' insulting to their intelligence. There is an absolute laundry list of reasons why we shouldn't let another Clinton into the Oval Office, and nowhere on it will you find "*Has ovaries."

No idea why I'm not getting alerts when I quoted in this thread anymore. Am I shadowbanned from this or something lol

I don't understand it either. I hate Reagan - mainly because of his close ties to Margaret Thatcher, who if you look at where I live it should be obvious why I don't like her (hint: She attempted to destroy Socialism in the UK in an attempt to fight Communism. I live in an area with that is like, 95% Socialist. She destroyed us, worse than any other Tory Prime Minister before her and after her - although Theresa May could take Thatcher's place by the end of this decade lol.).

For a minority of backwards brain-dead people, maybe. For the majority of people, most definitely not. It's definitely not the biggest reason (probably one of the smaller ones, to be honest) for her approval rating being so low. This argument invalidates valid opinions and criticisms and labels people as bigots, when no, they're not. Stop it.

I get people DO have legitimate grievances against her, but the kind of baseless bashing Trump and a lot of his base (not all) uses I am sure is in part because of her being a woman, saying things like she lacks the stamina to be president, and alleging that she may have used drugs before the second debate because she was more able or whatever. Furthermore I respect that you and many others don't hate Obama because he's black, but a lot of the said Trump base does, the whole birther thing is testament to that idea.

Also you know what, since Obama's term is ending, let's commend him for the good he did do; the economy is way better than how he inherited it. His foreign policy I believe did a good lot to improve the worldwide respect toward the US, and I strongly believe through me and my family's observances that he is a good reason for the decrease of the social stigma against minorities which was pretty prevalent in the times preceding him. His affordable care act, which allowed insured parents' children to remain on their policy until the age of 26 personally was a blessing for my family.

So let's not drop that train of thought right now.

I hate them I am soooo sad to agree with lots of u that Trump should never be president but, unfortunately, neither should Hillary. they are terrible options and I'm embarrassed for American people that one of these people will be our leader.
Also people are so annoying and flawed... I mean really Trump all those women? at least past presidents stuck to a select few... I guess... Clinton really? I mean stop lying already! we all know that u are covering up Benghazi so will I just cut it out?
Basically the entire country hates the options and we need to get our heads straight: Normal non-nutcases go out and vote in the primaries!!!
I'm not bashing anyone I'm just listing a few issues.
and plz people lets just not look at the gun issue people will go rounds on this till the end of life so why not discus something relevant? I mean make a new thred for that plz so I don't have to see it xD (I really hate the gun issue I'm not telling u to shut op so don't be offended plz)

EDIT: try to ignore my signature right now so I do have a preference but still ill try to present with a open mind

...Wut? This is a joke, right?
Let's frame this in some context: His "policy" towards the conflicts in the middle east ends with us still mired in Afghanistan, Iraq, partly Syria, and it's starting to look like we'll get dragged into the civil war in Yemen as well - thanks in large part to the US underwriting the Saudis in their campaign there.
Russia has basically restarted the Cold War because Obama doesn't have the backbone or the testicles to handle Putin.
China is building sand-castles on everyone else's beaches in the South China Sea and claiming them as sovereign territory, and Obama does practically nothing to support our allies there.
-This one's so bad that we might actually lose our longtime ally the Philippines, simply because Duterte has so little respect for the man.

Bottom line, under Obama's leadership, the US has gone from this:

To this:


Let's not even talk about the Iran deals.

So do I think the US should be a gun-toting warmonger eager to leap into foreign conflict? Hell no. But Obama's approach has made us a laughing stock on the world-stage, and Hillary will be four more years of the same (minimum).

Glad you're happy with that. I worked a health-care call center when the ACA rolled out, and there were an awful lot of people getting thoroughly screwed by Obamacare - senior citizens in particular. Also, that train-wreck of a healthcare policy has resulted in some providers pulling out of the marketplace altogether.

It's better now, but just because it worked out for you, don't think it's a godsend for everyone.

How does a lack of stamina or drug-use have anything to do with her being a woman? For fluff'sake man, even your own argument makes no sense here. Now yeah, I will grant you that some Trump supporters probably say disparaging things about Hillary based solely on her gender. These are the same kind of people who would call a guy with glasses "four-eyes" in school. But as I said, making that argument devalues actual objections from anyone with synaptic functions.


Look, I hate them both equally, but you wouldn't see me directing anywhere near the same amount of bile at Jill Stein. She has ovaries too, as far as I know. So yes, the "because she's a woman" argument is garbage.

I thought they did this way back under George W. Bush because the whole 'invade the Middle East' thing turned into what is essentially a proxy war? They kinda did at the Pristina International Airport when they nearly started World War 3 (well, actually, it was the US eager to do that - one for going into that region in the first place, two for telling American and British troops to unleash hellfire on the Russians (which they didn't thank God)) under Bill Clinton in 1999.

I guess Kephras has spoken. I believe what Isaac was speaking about is why Hillary is bomb blasted because of lying and although there is a laundry list of lies Trump has given to the American public you rarely hear about it. It is very true. Isaac is speculating it is due to her being a woman. I guess the train of thought dies right here says Kephras because there is not sexism in the US. Hillary leads significantly with women and Trump leads with men. No sexism? Explain that phenomenon. I would be very interested to hear why that is. I want to harangue on about Obama as president, racism, the tea party and the end of democrats and republicans being able to work together after Obama's election but I will control myself. I previously said said I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore. I guess I lied. Maybe I'll run for president too.

We're mired in these countries because of George Jr. The worst president in the history of this country. As far as the rest, I suppose you would prefer to "Just bomb the **** out of them".

I'm not saying the US and Russia have been linking arms and singing campfire songs since the "end" of the Cold War. Just that tensions have been getting increasingly worse ever since Putin figured out he could play whatever maskirova games he wanted and Obama was too much of a spineless sod to call him on it. From what I've seen (I don't know him personally, obviously), Putin is the kind of guy who only respects strength. I compare negotiating with Russia to a boxing match - Obama's been getting TKO'd every single time. Check the news on Syria and Aleppo for one very recent example.

Of course, that's also an example of the tangled web of political alliances in the middle east, which despite all his best efforts, Obama has been unable to extricate himself from. I, and many other Americans, chalk this up to him being "all Barack and no bite" - he's an empty suit that makes noise. But we're getting off track here, I guess. This thread is about the two clowns he's leaving us with.

*grumpy tiger pacing angrily*

EDIT:

Hence why I said "still" - Iraq and Afghanistan are Bush's doing to start with, Syria and ISIS are on Obama's head. And no, clearly bombing has not worked. I think I've been very clear thus far that I don't support either of the jackasses running for office.

I would never be so blind as to make the argument that sexism doesn't exist. I'm simply stating - and I've said this twice now - that the moment you make that claim, you're whitewashing all the perfectly good reasons not to elect her, while painting the opposition as neanderthals. It's the same as playing the Race Card with Obama, which is complete BS.

Now don't dis Putin that's Trump's boi.

I prefer to look for the truth. Sexism does play a role in this election as racism played a role in Obama's election and has affected the elections since then. That's not BS. It might be easier to turn a blind eye to it but it would not be the truth.

Learning from the past is something I believe would do us all a hell lot of good. George Bush runs into Iraq and topples the government there, which let me add was no straight out of heaven ting, but still, the excuse that they had nuclear weapons is proven bullshit. The debacle leads to the formation of ISIS. If we go running into every country toppling governments willy nilly, we might be "Don't tread on me" but we'll be even more of a world asshole, making three problems for every one we solve.
As for the civil war in Yemen, the Houthi rebels are backed by guess who your ole buddy the Ayatollah. Do you know what it's like in Iran? Between the Ayatollah and his Revolutionary Guard playtoys, they're a bunch of crazy trigger happy nuts who'd love to burn every trace of your western civilization and throw everyone who disagrees with their twisted ideologies into jail for life. If you let Yemen be grabbed by the Ayatollah, don't think you'll be having a super awesome tailgate party with beer and football for days, nope Iran's going to have more of a hold on the middle east and be giving you hella shit. Have fun with that.
Duterte wants less military presence in the Philippines. Hold on what's that? US military has been in the Philippines from before 2008? It would be nice to be able to throw blame for everything on Obama but there's a much bigger picture you need to look at my friend.

Yes, I am happy it worked out for me and many other Americans. But I don't necessarily think it's a godsend for everyone, I don't know how you sprung up with that one. HOWEVER it's not the devil's tool like many republicans portray it as either, who like to ignore the many who did benefit from it and vehemently deny that it's any form of beneficent. Yes, it needs work, but why reverse everything you've worked on so hard to accomplish instead of amending the holes? Hillary Clinton says that's what she'll do, remains to be seen whether she'll follow up on that or not, but at least it's something. The Grand Old Party "solution" of throwing everything to the big companies won't work.

Thank you for granting me that "some Trump supporters probably" say disparaging things about Hillary based on her gender, mighty one. Go outside my friend, you'll see hella Trump supporters calling Hillary the b word and the w one too. Tell me that's not sexist. Please, tell me. Now, what does claiming she has a lack of stamina have to do with anything? She doesn't have a lack of stamina... There's some weird stigma which I'm surprised you seem to be unaware of that somehow women are weaker than men. What it seemed was that Trump implied she needed drugs to be able to perform as well as she did that night.

Again, I'm not saying YOU hate Hillary or Obama because of their gender and race, I see you have genuine qualms with them. I'm talking about OTHER people, and for them they don't "direct the same amount of bile" at Stein because they probably don't even know who she is lol, she's at like what 2% in the polls?

So no that argument is not garbage, I don't know about chu but I don't believe confronting sexism to be garbage. Use the ole thinker friend.

Barack Obama was one of the more honorable presidents we've had. Definitely more honorable than anyone we'll be having in 2017.

In case a loyal Republican responds again and says that it wasn't...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilcot_Report

I don't know if the United States has anything similar, but this is enough proof that George Bush and Tony Blair are war criminals.

Y'know what else would do everyone some good? Literacy. Literacy is great.
See, if you applied some literacy to my statements and read them instead of just skimming, you'd see that I do not, in fact, favor "bombing the shit" out of everyone and "toppling governments willy-nilly." There's a lot more to being a strong leader than simply having a strong military - in fact, I'd go so far as to say relying solely on your international boomstick makes you a poor leader. Whether it was Bush's actions, or Obama's policy after the fact that lead to the rise of ISIS is a topic I'm sure historians will still be hotly debating years from now. But sure, everything is Bush's fault because clearly Obama can do no wrong, amirite?

Hm. Something's off here. This amazingly condescending paragraph seems to imply that we would, in fact, be better off getting embroiled in another middle-eastern conflict after all. It also seems to imply that I was totally unaware of the absolute mess in Yemen that's been going on since 2014. I'll just chalk it up to hyperbole, since I'm sure you were aware of how hypocritical it sounds.

You mean like how Duterte's been pissed off at our president ever since he dared speak out on the rampant "vigilante justice" going down over their war on drugs? I see the "bigger picture" just fine, thank you. The US offended him, so now he's cozying up to China and Russia instead.
And let me be perfectly clear: I personally have nothing against Duterte waging an actual war on drugs over there. I also understand that, as a nation based on the rule of law, US leadership cannot openly approve of extrajudicial killing - in our book, that's murder, justified or not. My critique of Obama in this case is that, for a man supposedly good with words, he's done damn little to smooth out that wrinkle. Meanwhile our DOD is trying to pretend everything's fine and burying their heads in the sand.

Yes, I know full well we can't just axe Obamacare at this point. That doesn't mean I forgive him for cramming a godawful mess of a policy down our collective throats, and I will not praise him for those months of hell I spent telling the nation's elderly why their healthcare premiums were skyrocketing and their coverage was shrinking. Nor am I going to forget how I had to lie, bald-faced to those same seniors when asked directly if Obamacare was responsible, and tell them it wasn't. His "legacy" is the stuff of my nightmares.

You're welcome.

*looks outside*
"Lackawanna County Democrats for Trump!" sign on lawn across the street. Hm...
*looks around*
Odd, I don't see (or hear) any vitriolic Trump supporters here. No foul language, either. Maybe you need a better neighborhood.

Regardless of what I think of the man, on that last point I must agree with you. As much as I hate him (and boy, do I hate him), he is still the better option than either of this year's choices.

*sigh*
Time to ignore this thread for another month. It does nothing favorable for my blood-pressure.