What's the point?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by PenguinDJ, May 7, 2015.

  1. I planned on starting up a prismarine business today. I had double chests of potions set up, armor, picks, and 4 pairs of new depth strider boots. I managed to get a little under 3 double chests of prismarine in 4-5 hours, along with a few stacks of sea lanterns and a stack of sponge, from one temple.

    So... great! That's probably at least 150k worth of prismarine. Oh, and a stack of sponge at 12k per block? I'll take three-quarters of a million rupees for it.

    So then, the sponge was taken by a thief, who has not been caught (though the person who admitted to stealing other items is still not banned). And for some reason, that was a real eye-opener for me. "Why should I waste my time trying to start a business, dedicating lots of time to it... when someone will make a farm and get the prismarine three times faster than me?"

    What takes me three hours to get from actually working for the items someone else will get in under an hour. With no effort at all from their part.

    Guardian farms are really easy to make, too, and only take a week at the most to set up; they will farm prismarine infinitely and with no effort from anyone.

    Temples, however, are rare and limited in the wastelands; there are a finite amount of prismarine blocks.

    Yet those who actually work for their items get beat by anyone and everyone with a 34 block drop to do their work for them.

    And even sea lanterns are able to be farmed by crafting the drops. That means the only thing actually worth getting in temples is sponge.

    But why the hell would anyone waste their time finding a temple for the possibility of getting a few sponges!?

    I had actually planned to start up a wild base with all sorts of farms; afk there overnight. While writing this post, I abandoned it. I am not going to make my life easier at the expense of other people who want to play the game how it's supposed to be played - with some effort.

    I don't agree with mob farms; I despise them; in my opinion that's not how Minecraft was meant to be played, or how it should be played.

    They take all effort out of the game. While AFKing at a mob farm for a few days you could easily net 500k, especially with guardian farms.

    But I guess EMC is "Play your Way" which does include playing with no effort at all.

    A thread on mob farms came up a while ago. I was one of the people who agreed with the concept of them. Didn't get where the people complaining about them were coming from. But I'm happy to say that I now do.

    Reading this back I've said that I dislike any sort of mob farm - that's not true. I dislike any sort of automatic farm, be it sugarcane, pumpkins, Withers, or, most clearly, Guardian farms.

    All farms have a devastating effect on the economy. Imagine how high prices would be for sugarcane if people actually had to work for it. Imagine how rare sea lanterns would be if people actually had to kill guardians by hand and destroy the temples. Imagine how pricey items would be if people actually had to work for them - and by that I don't mean work for $10 so you can buy Gold Supporter and AFK on Utopia 24/7.

    However, please remember I hate the farms, not the people that use them.

    If you plan on commenting, please do so with the utmost respect for other players' and their views.

  2. I get where you are coming from having a theif steal your items. I got sick and tired of people's behavior on regular smp that I pay $10 a month JUST for access to Utopia. I do NOT afk 24/7, if I am ever afk I am watching Netflix or Youtube.

    Guardian Farms ARE NOT as easy as it seems you are explaining them. They still require lots of work, yes you can have one up in a week but it wont be good because it takes time to make it more efficient. Guardians can be farmed, and I will tell you myself that I am making a farm right now. I know this lowers the price of the blocks later on, but if I dont make one someone else will anyways.

    Automatic farms are great but when people pay 26 bucks for an alternate account to sit at a farm all day... that is what is wrong. I have ONE account. Do you know how long I had to AFK while at my computer while farming for a DC of slime blocks? I get 1DC of slime every 3-4 hours I would say. A MAX efficiency farm that I manually have to keep an eye on.

    If anything, Iron farms are the main problem with MC.

    If someone stole your blocks, that sucks... it really does. I dont do an ounce of mining (unless I am making a farm) or digging or collecting materials etc, anywhere but Utopia. I can generally trust players on Utopia.

    My 2 cents, I hope my wording doesnt make it seem like I am being rude. I use caps to emphasize on specific points.
  3. I did plan on going against mob farms, but I went against it.

    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
  4. I don't like automation either, but as others have said before--its an inevitable development in the game.

    Mojang is terrible at balancing anything when it comes to MC. The only feasible way to nerf automation as mentioned above would be to modify the drops certain mobs give and making pistons not interact with certain plants. But the backlash would be horrendous--since many others have already devoted so much time and resources to construction these machines.

    And sorry for your losses recently. :(
  5. The problem is that, as you said, there are many ways to play. Some people, like you, enjoy the fun of mining and working for your blocks. Other people find fun in exploiting mechanics to make efficient contraptions. Both are valid ways to play and both have their uses. What you have to realize is that some people find it fun to build and optimize something like that. Both can't coexist peacefully where an economy is involved and the struggle begins where you must decide where it is that the line should be drawn in choosing how much automation is allowed.
    tisso123, 607, Kyzoy and 2 others like this.
  6. Here's my main objection with that statement:

    The world tends to think that auto farms are incredibly easy to make, and anyone can do it.

    They're not.

    Last year, myself and three others spent the entire year to make seven auto-farms.

    For most of them, we're actually less than half done, and we'll probably have to redo a handful.

    But anyways, imagine how hard you think making a farm is.

    Multiply that difficulty by, oh, say, twenty.

    It's still harder than that.
  7. http://empireminecraft.com/threads/the-12-months-of-farming.34492/

    I was only there for the first month, and that alone was difficult. TTMOF was a great idea, but it was a difficult idea. Automated farms take time because of slabbing or when Qwerty wants to surround the whole farm in iron gars in a 64 radius and then dig bedrock to bedrock in a 64 radius... I know you can call him crazy he is I know it.
  8. Farm is love. Farm is life.
  9. Well, if you're unimaginative, you can do everything the easy and boring way with cobble...
  10. I have a Guardian Farms in my single player world.
    It puts out an insane amount of drops, too many.
    est. drops
    raw fish - 1,800ish per hour
    prismarine shards - 3,600ish per hour
    prismarine crystals - 1,800ish per hour
    So I fill your pain!
    Sponges will stay expensive though.
    No it wasn't hard to make and yes its a afk farm, because I don't like the noise.
  11. How did the thief take your sponge? Why would you place a stack of items worth 768,000r where a thief could take them? If you absolutely couldn't keep it on you, you couldn't spare the 500r to lock a chest? And what does that have to do with automation?

    I also don't get your point. You spent 4-5 hours and would have make 768,000r (if not for that thief). So the price of prismarine drops to 50k? 10k? 5k? Instead of 918,000r you made 773,000r? That's a heck of a lot of money either way, and logic would say the price of sponges is likely something that will rise as there's a finite amount. Especially if less people are seeking out underwater temples because prismarine is worth less. If the price of sponges goes up 3k, it more than completely offsets your losses from prismarine even if the price dropped to next-to-nothing (which it wont).

    Minecraft has items which can be farmed, and items which can't. Diamonds - there's no way to farm those. Sponges - again, no way to farm. Redstone - can't be farmed. And on and on the list goes. So even though many items can be farmed, and you wont make as much money pursuing those items, there's no end of items which can't be farmed for adventurous people such as yourself.

    Also, AFKing is illegal. Rule 2 of the rules clearly states:
    So maybe you can say staff aren't doing enough about this rule, and should enforce it more heavily. I don't know the details of who's doing what, but I do know that if you think EMC staff or rules are bad, you need only spend a couple weeks on other servers.
    drowpassed likes this.
  12. When killed, witches may drop glass bottles (1⁄8 chance), glowstone dust (1⁄8 chance), gunpowder (1⁄8 chance), redstone (1⁄8 chance), spider eyes (1⁄8 chance), sugar (1⁄8 chance), and sticks (2⁄8 chance). They make 1–3 drops of 0–2 items each, for a maximum of six items total. Looting increases the maximum items for each of the 1–3 drops.

    Witches can also drop potions of healing, fire resistance, swiftness and water breathing as an equipment drop if killed while drinking that potion. They drop 5 experience when killed by a player or tamed wolf.

    Sorry, I had to point it out... xD
    607 and PenguinDJ like this.
  13. If I could've locked the chest, I would have. Unfortunately you can't lock chests in the Wastelands I was also gone for 10 minutes. It has nothing to do with automation, just as background.

    Estimating highly, that'd be 200k/hour, minus the time actually spent trying to find a temple. Build a farm with 25k drops/hour, you're getting at least a DC of prismarine for that, plus a lot of other drops.

    It may or may not be more productive, but with farming you don't even have to be at your computer. If you want to earn items honestly, though, you have to be, and this greatly offsets the balance between farming and getting the items by hand.

    Yet the majority of items can be farmed in some way.

    AFKing is completely legal. You must be able to respond to Staff if using an auto-clicker.
    ShelLuser likes this.
  14. I know that AFK is legal, but I am afraid of leaving my computer running. I think it will set fire if Minecraft is running unattended. LOL. I am one of those few though.

    Keep in mind that farms like the 100k drops per hour are more expensive to make than a 15k items per hour farm. Also note that most farms in vanilla will make 4x more items then EMC farms so a 100k farm will make 25k etc... My group is still draining our temple... probably because we are still collecting farm essential materials... :rolleyes:

    Whereas, some groups are probably near completion on theirs. I have an auction up now for prismarine bricks, I had to manually mine those (Took clost to 45-60 mins).
    georgeashington likes this.
  15. Just understand how cruel the world is. Some days you may have good fortune, other times you may not. I'm not going against your argument, I understand you.
    drowpassed and ShelLuser like this.
  16. Sorry that someone stole your items but saying that people who farm get these item with no effort or work is just plain wrong. These are not easy tasks. You don't simple plop down and let items pour in. I get some people don't like to farm and if you don't like farming, no one is making you. But c'mon don't call farmers a dishonest way of getting items.
    georgeashington and ShelLuser like this.
  17. I stand corrected. Redstone just seems like it would be a lot easier to mine.

    I would have picked up the sponges before I left, but of course hindsight is 20/20.

    And what happens to the price of prismarine when people do that? Exactly... It's far more lucrative to go out and get resources and it would have to be, provided you're getting the resources which people want and which can't be farmed more easily.

    I don't understand what automation or farming has to do with honesty.

    Let's look at the top 15 most popular items based on the searches of my EMC Market site:

    Can be farmed automatically: Iron Ingot, Emerald, Redstone, Gold Ingot. (4)
    Can't be farmed automatically: Diamond, Quartz Blocks, Wood, Beacons, Wool, Cobblestone, Obsidian, Stone, Glass, Sand. (11)
    Wood products I didn't list because sticks can be farmed, but either way the items which can't be farmed clearly outnumber those which can.

    The rule applies to automating all actions! Auto-clickers are given as an example of a way you could do that. As there is ambiguity here, it would be best to check with a staff and get an official confirmation on this. The second sentence clearly states you must be aware at all times, and farming could be considered automating actions.
  18. If this items would actually need the job to get done, then people like me, that don't like to be in wild/waste getting materials for my builds, won't be able to get them. If i was regular(which i will be on may 27), I would only get 2k max if I voted on all sites and logged in that day, and as you said items would be really expensive for people that don't like to go to waste and/or wild to either afk for farming or mining...( they both do the same job, I would not get as many items as i would want because they are so expensive. This is like industrialization in our real world, a person with a cloth machine can make 1 cloth in 30 min(I'm guessing) and a regular person who likes the traditional way(like you to minecraft that you like the survival aspects of it) will take more time, but he will be more proud.I agree that afk farms are a little, lets say unbalanced, compared to the traditional players, but automated farms are needed. EMC is growing very fast with more people coming every day with enthusiasm for building, having a shop, getting rich , etc all of these require in a way farms(or in time they will do) to fulfill the demand. Myself, as a builder don't like to spent time looking for shops to buy building blocks as it's nonsence(btw i do use azoundrias website)

    I see your point, but I actually support automated farms...

    I wanted to add this to my paragraph...
    P.S. iF kind of missed your point( i think it was that you are against automated farms) please tell me to rewrite this post =P

    PSS. Im sorry for your loss by someone stealing to you, hope you can get some items back if possible

  19. What's the point of me providing stock in my dirt cheap mini-mall when people will buy from me with the only intent of reselling it?

    I hate that your stuff got stolen, I really do. There's a common theme here, though. People suck. I love having people who will go to my shop knowing the item they want will be 10-50% cheaper than other stores, but try as I might, I cannot keep people from abusing my shop prices for their own profit.

    Yes, it might not be "fair" to you that someone can farm for these items, but they do put in the effort, materials, money, and time to build them. They put in as much, if not more, for the access to the same materials.
    tuqueque and ThaKloned like this.
  20. I support my Mob Farm and fellow Mob Farm Owners. We work days to weeks to get some of our farms to work. It is not our fault that our way of life has provided a good source of materials to the community at a cheaper price. Sure it makes competition less and harder for newbies to start out but that does not stop them from making their own farm. I encourage others to make their farms in lag-free designs that don't take tolls on TPS. Farms can be good for an economy other than the way you described them. Lets say someone wants to buy a lot of one material but in a non farm market, they can't afford to. With farms in place, that particular item can be cheaper for more players to afford. Remember when Wither Skulls were 10-15k or Beacons 30k +? I farmed endlessly a Wither Skeleton Farm to provide players of EMC an affordable option to have those beacons/skulls at their nice setups/other usage. It doesn't hurt the economy in my opinion. Other Farmers can agree that its not easy to create complex farms and in a sense it takes genuine work and patience to construct a efficient farm and isn't something the average lazy person would go and do. If you want a farm yourself, I will be more than happy to help provide and give blueprints to construct one.