What defines non-monetary scamming?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by jkjkjk182, Jan 9, 2015.

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Do you support the newly increased /shop prices?

Yes! 24 vote(s) 58.5%
No. 17 vote(s) 41.5%
  1. This has crossed my mind several times for a while now. What actually defines scamming when no money is directly involved?

    There has been a bit of controversy about a parkour (2313) lately that is free to enter, and has a prize of a Dancer egg. I have heard countless players claim that it is impossible, with several stating that even staff have found it to be impossible. If an event truly is impossible, but the event holder continues to advertise it as if it is, is that scamming? I would consider it scamming people of their time, and could possibly be considered a negative troll.

    Back to the original question, what do you all consider to be a scam? Everyone's respectful opinion is welcome. :)
  2. In my opinion, If it is a 'Free to attend' event, It is not considered scamming. May not be very nice, as you mentioned above example, but that is not scamming. As it is possible, just noone has completed it.

    Look at it this way, The Dancer is a limited promo item. The player is not going to just let you easily have it for doing some easy little parkour, You are gonna have to work for it lol.
  3. If there is no charge for trying, no scam. I'd be unhappy with the owner if it turned out that it was impossible though.
    jkjkjk182 and Bro_im_infinite like this.
  4. I think a scam would have to involve some sort of measurable material gain. I would also say that the "victims" have to have a reasonable expectation that they would be able to win.

    The person in this case may feel he is gaining happiness, amusement, social points, or something similar, but it is not material. They may also be earning extra Rupees by drawing people to a shop that is on their Residence, but the results are not necessarily measurable.

    As far as having a reasonable expectation of winning, whatever spot people cannot get past must be close to doable at least or people wouldn't even bother to try it. It could be measured or something, but the problem I have there is that people not being able to do it doesn't necessarily prove that it can't be done.
  5. I know the parkour you have stated and while I wouldn't say it's scamming because there is no money involved, I'd say it's more like trolling? Trickery?
  6. I would like to say: It is not possible.

    A part of the obstacle course requires you to jump this high.
    Best Minecraft Servers

    That is approximately 20 pixels high which is very impossible. I have tried it with the model shown. Here is the thing: In the obstacle course, it is further away which makes it worse.

    If you do not believe me do the following:
    1. Place a snow block
    2. Place 3 snow caps on top of it.
      The snow caps are each 2 pixels high so it appears to be 6 pixels high in all but the top snow cap is physically not there.
    3. Try to jump on it.
    So, is it a scam?: No.
    Is it possible?: Maybe
    WARNING: I may be wrong about this; there may be a way to make the jump with the objects he has placed, but I doubt it.
    FDNY21, jkjkjk182 and Deadmaster98 like this.
  7. Trolling? Oh no.

    Could we get a staff member to confirm that the maker of this parkour course is not a nick5013 alt? :p
  8. It is possible, I got to the last jump( 1 block ladder jump, easy :p) and got that annoying sprint glitch :( Not sure if this is really relevant, is the thread specifically the parkour or just generally?
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  9. If it is impossible, then I believe it is a scam. Players could be spending time which could be spent building, hunting, mining or making rupees. That is an opportunity cost to the player.

    I believe there are certain levels of scammery. In descending order of severity:
    1. Deception of a player to deprive them of assets (rupees and items) for personal gain (e.g. offering to sell diamonds at 1r a-piece, having a player give you all their rupees and then not giving the diamonds)
    2. Misleading a player, but not depriving them of assets, for personal gain (e.g. advertising 1r diamonds and only having one in stock to drive more players to your shop)
    3. Misleading a player simply to cause nuisance and waste time (e.g. offering a prize for a parkour not possible in vanilla Minecraft)
    This should, in my view, receive some sort of punishment.
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  10. The user has made many impossible parkours then says they're possible however won't do them because he lacks the skills...
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  11. Random poll is random.

    I believe I heard mention of a hard parkour requiring block glitching, maybe this is the case?

    Looks pretty simple with block glitching.
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  12. Most of the webs make it useless to block glitch and some of the places make it impossible to block glitch.
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  13. It is not simple haha, the jump is in the air and very difficult. I feel I should be allowed to post a picture of said jump as the parkour res has already been stated. here it is for reference :)

    Attached Files:

    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  14. I cannot make this jump >.<

    Attached Files:

    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  15. I just remembered I have a screenshot of me on penultimate jump.. Will edit this when I go on PC (on s5)
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  16. Aikar, I have a question.

    Let's say a user designs a parkour of a specific difficulty. They set a certain prize and a certain entry fee with reference to the difficulty, to ensure they will likely make a profit.

    However, someone playing the parkour uses block glitches to complete the parkour at a significantly lower difficulty. Multiple people do this, and the parkour designer loses money.

    With these implications in mind, do you believe that the illegitimate use of block glitching should be restricted as part of the 'do not exploit glitches' rule, or should parkour designers take block glitching into account when designing? Should it be reasonable to expect parkour operators to bear the cost of block glitches which they overlook, or which haven't even been discovered when they're designing or operating their parkour?
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  17. This thread is for any discussion on possible types of scams, the parkour is just what motivated me to post it.:p
    ScarTheNinja and nfell2009 like this.
  18. I wouldn't consider it scamming because no money was involved. It is trolling and a jerk move, but not scamming.
    jkjkjk182 likes this.
  19. That looks like a straight off jump at the ladder with a well time shift hold when within the 'ladder block' thus contact does not need to be made with it.

    I've been making parkours for years, in the old days I'd ensure to build all floors as half slabs to stop glitching up walls, with redstone dust placed on the top of blocks to stop glitching straight up.
    Now I will just put string everywhere that is glitchable as its possible to defy gravity.
    Some basic planning is all thats needed if your planning on making this a business, remember everyone will cheat.

    Now back to the topic at hand please, No more complaining about 2313's Parkour.
    bloodra1n and jkjkjk182 like this.
  20. No matter how hard I try in creative (1.7.10), I can't make a jump onto a ladder with the head two block directly below it, same as this:
    I also tried making a field of heads at max head height (placed on side of block, not on block under) and I can't seem to do it from any angle. Continuous jumping with f3 on shows that jumping off of a head, one can never break the height of 4.999, and 5.000 (in my creative world) is required to hook onto the ladder. While some people apparently have been able to get onto it, I would suspect that it is due to a random and very rare server bug, as it is not possible to do this if you look at the math behind it (at least with the numbers I can find).