Tutorial and Games World Concerns.

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by zervados, Aug 13, 2014.

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  1. http://empireminecraft.com/threads/together-we-build.38322/#post-728603
    If you guys could, I would love to see some pictures of the development of this Tutorial. We have been waiting 4 months for a team of builders to build a Tutorial and we have gotten no progress updates, if there is any, and no signs or clues on the ETA of the Tutorial.

    While I am at it, how about the Games World?
    It seems that the last time any of it was discussed was a year ago. Have you guys completely given up on this? If not, can I see the progress of it, the progress that was made since last year.

    Honestly, it feels the the Empire is just hiding a shitload of stuff from us, which is ironic because Aikar said that he wants to be more transparent to us.

    I want to hear from the Staff.
    Mindlegokid, 607, sambish20 and 2 others like this.
  2. Games world ticket hasnt been updated, its fully discussed in a private forum.

    Theres been major work on it over the past few months, but it did get stalled for a bit as its nearing deployment stage (release) and it needs time from me to get that fully ready, which I had some concerns they were working to address.

    As for tutorial... Krysyy had them working on games first, but were hopefully going to get tutorial/training work in here soon, as I left a blue print with krysyy when we went to Texas on what I envision it looking like functionality wise, but as you see.... things have been quite busy with other things lately.

    We are working as fast as we can, but remember EMC is not our day jobs.
    HeIusion, 607, Bigdavie and 2 others like this.
  3. I'd like to also note that on the tutorial, we need to wait until EULA changes are officially finito or we just have to turn around and do it again...

    EDIT: The team made a temporary tutorial to be in use until the new one is in effect. We are thinking of ways to incorporate the input from the other teams when looking at the tutorial. Things like this take planning to be done right. Otherwise you have too many cooks in the kitchen and that tends to lead to problems if not handled correctly. We said going into this that it would not be immediate. We have not 'hidden' things in a malicious way. We do not allow release of information until we are sure it will stay that way so as to not upset the community when we have to change our plans.

    Take the EULA for example. It affects every part of the Empire. Therefore, every part has to adapt and in the case of the tutorial, the plans honestly had to be scrapped because there was explanation of the ranks system. Building the structure is not that large of a task. Planning the layout and how to present the players with the information is what is difficult.

    The Games Server is built. Pretty much every bit that the build team can do is done. No, I'm not going to give you pictures and neither will the build team. Once again, we are not hiding it maliciously. We are hiding it like you hide a present for someone to open on Christmas. It's in plain sight with a wrapper on it. Now we have to work on the code (we meaning Aikar/devs) and tripple check the logistics of each 'game' before release. In addition, we have to discuss aspects of the EULA and any changes it might have.

    So no, we will not release pictures of the progress. If you are not on the teams involved, you do not need to know until we say you can open the present. I know the community will be pleased when they get to pull the bow off. You just need to be patient.
  4. I think SkyDragon would have liked it if we had known that we ├╝berhaupt would get a present :)
    Because for christmas, even with the wrapping, you can still see that there's a present for you.
    HeIusion and PandasEatRamen like this.
  5. Well at least we know they are not forgotten. I am really excited for that mob arena :D
    PandasEatRamen and jkjkjk182 like this.
  6. I do think that some progress updates should be released, as it would clear up some issues on how active/inactive the projects really are, and it would encourage those who are working on it to keep working on it. It could also implement some community feedback somehow, which is what I would think the administrators would like.

    From what I remember, before I was involuntarily demoted left about a month ago, the project was about half ready and marked in its deployment stage. I applaud you, and the team, if you have suddenly made all of the members active again and put more than 3 months worth of work into one month. Very nice.

    Actually, the team was developing(somewhat) the tutorial first, before the games world was suddenly the focus.
    I could absolutely be wrong, but I do think I remember seeing that Administrators were paid, not saying it comes from EMC or is enough to keep a farm animal in his home, but it is assumed.

    I wouldn't say that it affects every major part of the Empire. Some examples of each section of the tutorial to change with the EULA might include rupee bonuses and the detail of how many residences supporters can buy, but the core idea of the main tutorial areas, such as residence claiming/flags, wilderness, wastelands, custom mobs/bosses, events, rupees, and shops, would remain unchanged. The most you would have to do to change simple EULA violations in the tutorial that are the few signs/floating text that briefly describe it, which should not be that difficult. If things such as the ranks system are as big as residences, the wild, etc, then it can simply be added later, similar to the previous tutorial.
    I am not sure if you forgot, but the tutorial was not actually in the to-do list for anytime soon. I would also think, with the influx of tutorial complaints, that a "temporary" tutorial that has been used for months would be modified or scrapped in favor of a permanent and functional new one, or even the previous one.
    Please update me if I am mistaken, but I was told that the 'games' were unable to be coded by the devs, which is why I had to write and figure out all of the redstone/command block commands for it to properly work.

    I do not mean to offend or target either party, but I felt like I needed to clear up quite a few "inconsistencies". Just for everyone's knowledge, everything I have said has either already been publicly said by staff, is available public knowledge, or would not make a difference to anything major if stated.
    MrUnknownian likes this.
  7. The EULA took away a lot of focus away from the game worlds, and this is already a huge project. Rome was not built in a day, and the same goes with game worlds. They will take time, but they will be amazing.
    HeIusion likes this.
  8. that was entertaining to read, thank you
  9. This is pretty absurd criticism. Sorry, but this is just nit picking and nagging.
  10. From what I see, there is more gain than loss when progress to projects that are already known is shared. If all information of progress is hidden, and the staff keep saying that the feature is coming "soon", you would get players that keep asking what progress has been made, no community input, and more anxiousness than excitedness. If progress is revealed, you would not get players that ask for progress, real transparency(which is what Aikar said was going to happen), community input, and players would believe that the staff are ACTUALLY working on it. For example, Dragon Tombs has its progress hidden. There are a lot of players asking for progress, many players that have left because they thought it would be coming sooner, and has seemingly been pushed further and further every time the semi-annual announcement is made. It seems to me and a few others that the games server is taking the same path.
    But I can blame someone for building a massive building in the first week and "taking a break" after for the next few months, when he specifically signed up and should expect this type of work.
    P.S. Not sure how that related to the above paragraph, but ok.
    I would love to see where you got the information that admins were no longer being paid.
    I do agree, but the ones that are not as 'desirable'(Rupee bonuses/Residence limits), which are being changed with the EULA, are seemingly being used as an excuse for not making the tutorial.
    Exactly, but unfortunately, that is not the case. Building a new tutorial was not on the official to-do list for build team. There were no visible intentions to replace the current, "temporary" tutorial.
    The main emphasis I was trying to place, which I think you are confused about, is that I was told by a developer that they are not able to code the 'games', contrary to what was said by Krysyy.
    I am not really sure how this relates and/or helps me take you seriously or your opinions validly.

    P.S. Please keep the quotes exact quotes. Although it might be easier for you to compose, it is harder to understand with the format and all.
    MrUnknownian likes this.
  11. Don't feed the troll, Olaf.
  12. If you want serious, I can work with that also.

    Nick, the games are no small feat, and we both know that. We want to do things well versus a hack job. I do not know everything that goes on behind the empire and I admit things can be done more efficiently or need to be approved, but there is a point where criticism becomes just nagging.
    PandasEatRamen and SoulPunisher like this.
  13. You were involuntarily demoted of your build team rank due to your inactivity both in-game and on the forums, and then proceeded to give a rude and improper reply to a staff member who kindly approached you asking if you would like to keep your rank and resume your activity on the Empire.
    Olaf_C likes this.
  14. Games World is essentially complete, as stated by Krysyy and Aikar. We need to work out the final stages of its technical development, of which Snr Staff are primarily needed - before rolling it out, and that is not as simple as building, as Krysyy also said in regards to the Tutorial. To address this concern again: It's coming along nicely. Just this weekend Krysyy and I have made plans to make progress.

    The new tutorial is something that we have been pursuing, and now that we have some early plans we can start to kick it into motion with the build team.

    I'd also like to include something else on transparency: We've been getting it. When I rejoined the staff team 4 months ago, everything in between my absence as far as moderation, staff related topics, updates I was already aware of before reading the staff forums because of this transparency - just read Aikar's profile, Track, Empire News. It doesn't, however, ensure you access to cool builds and plans, because to put it simply; that just ruins the surprises. As Krysyy said, something being revealed doesn't mean something is 100% going to happen now, so we like to hold back. It takes a while :)

    I'm locking this thread. We've explored its purpose much further than necessary and it has now become the topic of unnecessary grudges which need to go no further
  15. You were involuntarily demoted becuase YOU left the Empire and started spreading false accusations about its members. You claim to have inner-working knowledge of the Empire and how things happen, but you have no idea. You were a build team member, and while I appreciated your service as one, I did not appreciate your lackluster sense of thinking that you were somehow automatically in possession of every ounce of knowledge. You were not a moderator on our staff team, so some of the amazing knowledge that you claim to have about how things work behind-the-scenes are based off of superficial ideas that YOU have planted inside your own mind.

    For the public record, nick5013 was an amazing member of the build team. However, due to his access to stage and build team forums, he was demoted from his position after his ridiculous response to a private message about whether or not he planned to return to the Empire. I asked him to address his problems with us if he had any, and he responded with random gifs and no actual message. Due to his abilities as a member of the build team, he was demoted immediately to protect the build team's hard work. For sake of transparency, here is the message:

    The tutorial is the first thing a player sees upon joining the Empire. Can you blame us for wanting to design something that will knock their socks off. The Build team (at least 5 of them, sorry you weren't there that day nick) designed a temporary tutorial to be used in place of the confusing maze that had previously been in place. This tutorial does its job of getting the information across and doesn't get people stuck because they can't figure out what to do next. So no, we won't return to the previous one. It was a source of a lot of problems. The temporary tutorial that the team made will stay in effect until the 'knock-your-socks-off' one is put in place.

    Things change. Ideas for some of the games' inner-workings change. Not saying that it will necessarily work, but who says we can't try. Once again, you are not in possession of every scrap of knowledge about what the staff may or may not be talking about at any one moment so please stop acting like you are.

    Final Note about why this thread was closed:
    We addressed all valid concerns that were brought up. We let the conversation continue until it became obvious that the conversation was not going anywhere and had become the battleground for a post war. In order to quell the drama, this thread was locked. If you have a problem with this,. please contact your Community Managers and we can speak with you.

    Have a Good Day!
    jkjkjk182, NathanRP, mba2012 and 10 others like this.
  16. And one more note on the technical needs that depend on me - The Empire is not your typical Bukkit server. We do not slap things together quickly.

    We have an extensive deployment system that helps us keep the rolling out of updates to 10 servers at a time simple and painless.

    Adding a new server, and more specifically, a new TYPE of server that is NOT a clone of the traditional SMP sense, requires changes to our deployment system to support this.

    While there hasn't been much dev work game wise (I did add some new Residence Flags and support for the Games World), there still has technical work that only I can do to finalize releasing it.

    We're not sacrificing our quality experience and quality platform just to rush something out.

    Also, regardless of being paid or not, being paid does not miraculously add 8 hours onto our day. I work as hard as I MENTALLY and PHYSICALLY can on EMC, to the point I am putting myself at health risks because I am over doing it.

    If this isn't good enough for you, then EMC is not the place for you.
    jkjkjk182, NathanRP, mba2012 and 5 others like this.
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