[suggestion] Wild Vault talk

Discussion in 'Suggestion Box Archives' started by samsimx, Jan 4, 2016.

  1. So let's talk about something that was up in the air a really long time ago and has since settled, the access to your /vault in the frontier.

    Before I get into the discussion, pros/cons, and my personal opinion, I would just like to get it out there that is a VERY touchy subject. I'm not looking for any heated arguments, bashing or anything of the sort and posts of that kind will be reported and removed. :)

    Now I think we can all obviously see that if everyone had access to their /vault in the frontier that the economy would drastically crash and there would be no reason as to why items that are easily farmed by the hundreds of double chests would cost anything anymore, which is why we need a good amount of restrictions or requirements to balance out players having access to their vault in the frontier. This isn't something that I just thought of today or yesterday or even last week, no, this is something that has been on my mind for years and has haunted me whenever the thought of building a new wild base or farm comes up. Access to your /vault in the wild would be extremely helpful to players who go out hundreds of thousands of blocks to build in fear of griefing and to those who are dedicated wild players who ever wish to bring their hard earned materials to town. Also I'm heavily against /vault being accessed in the wastelands, making this a frontier wild/nether only thing.

    Some ideas for the requirements you must meet to have access to /vault in the wild:
    1. MUST have over 100 vault pages. I don't think this should even be a variable that is considered to be changed, reaching the feat of 100 vault pages is already hard enough so rewarding with wild vault seems fair, right?
    2. A high fee. Paying some 50r or whatever doesn't make much sense when you're filling up a full vault page full of goodies from your farm. Make it something high that the already "rich" people can have more of a rupee drain from, along the lines of 2500r-5000r per typing the command /vault #.
    3. Supportership. Another perk for supporters, I hear the crowd boo in disapproval! This is just an idea, having to have supporter would give more incentive to keeping your subscription based on if you have a high demand for this "perk". Giving it to diamond members only seems even more pay2win, so maybe iron, gold and diamond could have access to this perk.
    4. A cooldown on using the vault in the wild. I really like the idea of having cooldowns on certain perks/items on EMC. The blizz ard items utilize the cooldowns well which give the effect of having a snowman every 24hrs a nice little thing. Other items such as pot of gold and haunted head utilize it well too. If putting something such as a 6/12/24hr cooldown on the wild vault would make it seem less overpowered then so be it.
    Those are just a few requirements that came to me, if you have more to add or wish to critique the above please feel free to do so in a mature way. :)
    But samsimx why would you suggest something that only affects such a small percentage of the players on EMC!!!11!!11!1! Glad you asked that question xX360noScopeMinerxX.

    I don't think that this would actually only effect such a small amount of players at all, I think it would actually catch on as such a great perk that a lot of things in turn would go up in price! Vault vouchers would increase in price due to the demand in them, supporter vouchers/supporter through IRL money demand would also go up if this was a supporter limited perk. This would give more benefits to the players in the wild and would hopefully encourage more people to go out in the wild and want to bring back more goodies to town.

    I think that the economy is pretty stale as of now, there are plenty of "rupee sinks" in how /shop sells promos and senior staff services but imagine if every time you wanted to take items from your wild base to town/another server a chunk was taken out of your rupees - taking even more money out of the pockets of the players. ;)

    Last point I have to make is almost a separate suggestion but has to do with the discussion. A separate vault just for use in the frontier. After going over 100 "normal" vault pages you have access to the option to buy frontier vault page(s) for some ridiculous amount. This wild vault could even only be limited to 1 and not only costs a lot to buy but costs a lot to open each time you choose to do so in the frontier.

    Please give ANY feedback to this idea as it would be much appreciated. :)
    Your best friend samsimx, a fellow lazy wild player and someone with too many damn vault pages...
  2. I'm pretty opposed to the whole idea because I think it will only break stuff either way. I mean.. If you set 100 vault pages as a minimum then this would also result in the player getting the option to transport 100DC's of farmed stuff at once. Immediately creating "economical risks". High fees and supportership can be a way to make it harder, but with the option to haul in 100DC's one can also argue that it's merely a large investment which will easily pay itself back tenfold.

    Now, although I am opposed to the idea I can see the benefits too of course.

    So how about limiting all this to one single vault page which one can use? That would make some things a little easier without overdoing it.
    Acemox2k likes this.
  3. Personally I think vault access in the frontier is too game-changing to be kept as a supporter perk, and as long as there's a cooldown, I see no issues with it.
    That's why there'd be a cooldown on vault access in the frontier. ;)
    Acemox2k likes this.
  4. If we are to be allowed Frontier TP's and Wild, I think this feature may not have a lot of appeal. I think I would see it as an option I might use over the others in some cases. I do think a high per use cost and a cool down are good and necessary to avoid using it as a way to move large quantities of items without an investment of time and effort.

    I dislike the idea of having to buy 100 pages to use a Wild Vault. I know some players use many pages, but I have don't ever use more than 5 already and the high price of buying all of them would rule out this feature being used by a lot of newer players.

    I don't think allowing or disallowing it in the Waste makes any difference given a high cost and delay since we can easily make trips to and form the Waste so it would not likely be used anyway.
  5. That's the part which isn't fully clear to me. Right now the vaults have a cooldown as well: once opened you can use them for free for the upcoming 5 minutes (unless you got 5+ pages). So if you approach this from that perspective then I could imagine that a cooldown would allow you to use the vault for 5 minutes before locking it for 12 - 24hrs. Yet that would still be overpowered in my opinion because of the potential of transporting a lot of DC's at once.

    Another possible restriction which might help is limiting its use to established outposts which already have a teleport facility. This would not only limit the whole thing but could also somewhat justify it. Considering that the transport doesn't always have to be from the outpost to town, but could also be the other way around.

    Still... if you can already teleport then you'd also be able to use a donkey and teleport an extra SC around. I could agree that the step from a SC to a DC isn't all that heavy, but I can't help wonder if it doesn't become too intrusive once we start talking about multiple DC's.
  6. If I understand the OP, Samsimx is suggesting only being allowed to use the 101st vault page.
    samsimx and amadai like this.
  7. I'd think that you'd have 5 minutes of vault access until you switched servers, in which case the timer would automatically expire. This would prevent people from making multiple trips within 5 minutes.

    You can't /stable donkeys with chests; I don't see why you'd be able to teleport with them.
  8. I'm not really understanding this idea of "overpowered". Why is it considered some crazy huge advantage that you are able to bring in your hard earned, farmed, mined or whatever goods into town from a base far away in the frontier? Let's think back to the root of why people even want this feature:

    It's because they make their outposts/bases very far out in the frontier in order to avoid the risk of griefing; plain and simple. Are you telling me that a person who is simply trying to avoid a visit from a griefer should be punished by having to make a 2 hour trip every time they want to bring a DC of their hard earned items to town, whereas someone else who isn't as cautious can bring in whatever they want, whenever they want into town in within 5 minutes? To me this doesn't make sense at all...

    Bottom line:
    - Great suggestion sam (you are bae)
    - I don't believe in players being limited in bringing their earned items/resources to town. :)

    This is a firm opinion of mine and I completely understand if you disagree with any of the points above, feel free to let me know your opinions on the matter as well.
    ShelLuser, cadgamer101 and samsimx like this.
  9. Well, you already can. Just like you can with horses. Sit on a horse, and you can teleport to other residences as well as to and from outposts. So within that reasoning; once an outpost has been established and gets a protected area (which enables teleportation) then players already have an option to transport extra items.
  10. Originally I never specified about the requirement of having 100 vault pages and what I meant by that. I think that after you have over 100 vault pages then the rest can be accessed in the wild. But may as well cap it at something like 1-5 pages only.
  11. Not really what I meant. Teleporting from res to res and across worlds is one thing, stabling a horse in order to transport items to/from town is a completely different thing.

    Things can change. Devs don't have to allow teleporting with donkeys/mules.
  12. I'm also against the idea of having to purchase 100 pages of vault for wild use, especially because most people who actually play at the wild and would like this feature don't have much use for their regular vault (like myself).

    We could instead have a supporter perk for Wild Vault use, and higher supporter ranks could use it more often (every 24 hours for iron and 12 hours for diamond for instance). And then we could, like regular vault vouchers, have wild vault vouchers to extend the number of pages (up to a maximum of 3 or 5). How to handle people who are not supporters but have bought those pages? No clue :p

    Still, I don't know if like the idea. I like the way things are right now, with a different economy on town and on the wild - economy as in the value you give to each item, cause of course you can't sell stuff on the wild. And it'll get easier for people who have established outposts anyway once the TPs arrive.
  13. I play at the frontier, and when I go to town I usually bring a lot of stuff with me, be it to restock my shop or to build something there. But I can't of course bring with me DC's of cobblestone, smooth stone, bricks and other building blocks, the same way I won't bring carrots and paper and potion ingredients, as those things are cheap and take a lot of room. I'll limit myself to bringing ores, obsidian, quartz and other valuable items which I worked hard to mine, and the rest that I may need I'll buy there on town. Doesn't cost much to me and helps a lot who depends on selling these items.

    Now, if we were to allow everyone to bring DC's of stuff every time they make a trip to town, I wouldn't ever need to buy cobblestone, dirt, bricks or pretty much anything, as I'm self-sufficient in the wild. Because of that the demand of those items would drop, and so would the prices, and that would hurt everyone that depends on those items for a living, like mall owners and even small miners.

    That's why it'd be "overpowered". Hope I made my point clear :)
  14. In one of my vault pages I like to keep a set of emergency items so I can conveniently grab them if I get put in a bad position. A pick, sword, bow and arrows, armor, food and so forth. In the frontier I usually keep stuff like this in a chest near my active Bed but have messed up by not setting my spawn point or dying in lava and losing everything, dying with my backup equipment or whatever.

    So far we've mainly concentrated on moving items to supply shops. Depending on how this is implemented, it may be economical enough to keep these sorts of things in my Wild Vault and use it for emergencies instead of stashing stuff all over the place.

    I was also thinking earlier that this is very similar to how we use our Ender Chests every day already. Perhaps instead of using Vault for this, the Ender Chest could be expanded or the regular Chest could be customized, something like the Labor Day Bench. The advantage (for me) would be not having a shit-ton of Vault pages I'll never use. We already have other items that limit their use period and location like the Blizz Ard drops. They would also have the added expense of using an extra inventory slot.
    ShelLuser, Birosquinha and samsimx like this.
  15. How about, and stick with me on this:
    Instead of doing this to /vault, we have an /evault (Ender-vault)

    It's an extension of the enderchest and it works on a per-server basis (You can't move items from one SMP to another)
    100r fee for 5 minutes
    100,000r to expand it per page

    Otherwise, -1 on this idea.

    The /vault's original purpose (in my opinion) is to transport items between servers and/or store items in general.
    Jadziaa and ShelLuser like this.
  16. I like that idea
  17. we already have plans to allow mail within strict limitations to be used in the wild, which would cover the 'desire' here without being as overpowered as vault.

    something like (not finalized is why its not out yet) being able to send 3 stacks of items from wild to someone else for some steeper price that then takes 5 days before it even arrives to the person...

    but lot of this becomes even less useful once empire outpost teleportation is in, so no reason to rush into things and compromise the survival nature.
    samsimx likes this.
  18. I also 'live' in the frontier. I think once the teleportation possibilities are enabled we won't have a need for this, just pop back and forth a few times and use an ender chest too if needed.
    I sincerely hope that people who are able to teleport to my outpost are also regulaated (by me) so that random griefers can't zip in, tear the place apart, and tp back to town with my stuff..