[Suggestion] Cross plot building, in the sky

Very well put. I'm one of those people at a corner....

That's bascially what I'm saying. I never thought about under the road but this would make certain things (like building tunnels or redstone works at the edge of your plot easier/possible. I currently have lights in my pathway turn on with a daylight sensor, but they start right at the edge so I can't easily make it look exactly how I want it to. But this should be a feature that is consistent whether it's a single road or double road. Sure at a double road that would give you more space to work with but you have the trade off of needing more materials to span two plots.

Also, anyone who selects no on the poll, could you please post as to why you don't like the idea?

it isnt rlly a bug so much as the minecraft world is round....

Um...what? how is that relevant?

the world is round, so straight up isnt straight up the blocks

for instance, go to utopia stand next to a residence that has move off, fly directly up
then back up one block, fly directly up, repeat until about 8 blocks back

You're thinking about minecraft too literally...The minecraft world isn't round...Also even if it were it's still irrelevant to what I'm suggesting

Biomes are a significant part of minecraft. If you don't like your biome, you simply /res unclaim and move.
It's not about something not working. Some people want ice some don't. Some people don't care about water freezing (water only freezes under specific circumstances, btw; the challenge is in making sure it will freeze for an ice farm).
If you hit f3 it will tell you your biome as soon as you get a res.

You could extend this logic further to see that it's silly: "It's not fair that so-and-so has a cool res number, but some people randomly get assigned stupid ones," "Older players got that promo, so I should get one for free," "That guy paid real $ to keep this server alive and got cool things; I want those things for free," "Aikar is in creative mode, so I should be too."

Why should a "random residence" be the same as the next? I know a few people who are grateful that they can produce blue orchids in town or ice. Should they have that taken away so someone doesn't get jealous?

I always thought under the road should be treated the same as up in the sky. No one can even see if you dig around down there.

Don't be silly; nothing is round in Minecraft.

take a look at my 4 res on smp8 you will see i have the start of a floating home that covers all 4 res

Yeah ok biomes thing is understandable, and no supporters and promo items shouldn't have things taken, that's not being fair, that's special treatment. But as for the roads, there's no reason that you should be able to build over single roads but not double roads. Can you think of any good reasons?

I agree, even just one block down is more than enough for the road.

Not on a double road though.

What's with everyone assuming I just punched my first tree yesterday?

Yeah that is pretty silly the way you wrote it. Thanks for that. It was a good try.

If you want to use Promos and creative mode as an analogy properly, some people would randomly get creative mode and/or promos without knowing it when they first log in but aren't informed of what they received until much later. We would also allow them to change or choose what they get, but wouldn't tell them that they can do so until it is too late.

Then when someone says, "Hey I'd like to use Creative Mode like my neighbor there is doing.", we tell them, "Sorry. Your neighbor got that ability randomly and you did not. If you had chosen that ability when you first logged in you could also have it, but it is too late now. By the way, you're welcome to dispose of some Rupees to pay for your ignorance. Here's some tissue.".

I don't have as much of a problem with these inequalities as I do with the fact that none of us are informed of them at a critical time and once we've learned about them, we've already invested in our Residence. The only people here who intentionally claim any plot are not new. It is the principle of the thing. But I am silly that way.

I'm probably going to give up and buy my way out of my situation, since I don't see a lot of solutions being offered here. Actually none. If you need the Rupees and want to get out of your corner and join those more fortunate, let me know.

The solution is simple, you adjust it so that it knows that the edge of your plot is against a single or double road, then adjust the amount you're allowed to build out above the limit. It's an odd number for double roads so you have it so that you can only build on the exact middle row if you have perms on both sides, otherwise it's considered a town block. Pretty simple thought process, just unsure how hard it would be to implement as I have no idea what their code looks like.

The town itself is one huge 'residence'

Every individual 'plot' is a sub-residence within the big residence.

The 'easiest' thing to do would be to create sub-zones within the 4x60 area between each residence
-And then on payment, permission would be given to that particular individual (and/or the neighbor)

That causes 3 issues however:

1) If one of the residences goes derelict (or force claimed) do the permissions change or is the sub-zone builds and permissions reset?

2) Roads need to maintain pass-ability (and if it's a bigger road - it needs to keep lighting too)
-To have the road still use-able and lit up would need to keep certain areas open.

3) The cross connection between 4 residences (the square where the fountain is) could not be handed out 'evenly' two sides will take up more than the other two ... unless it's 'another' sub-zone...

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When you also consider 13x60 residences ... if you keep the same consistency as the 4x60 format... how would you also incorporate the 5x60 section in the middle with the lighting and giving out permissions? Would it be another sub-zone or an extension to the ones next to it? (or would the entire 13 wide area be one big sub-zone?)

I'm not getting too deeply into the discussion but there's still one thing I don't fully agree with.

I beg to differ, though we (my friends and myself) could have been the exception to the rule of course.

We're not told explicitly in the tutorial, true. However, we are more than once pointed to the wiki while being told that this is the place to seek out anything else you'd like to know about the Empire. I don't think you should underestimate the potential that has, if people use it.

I was no more than (roughly) 1 day into the game when I had already learned about unclaiming, in between res. edits and biome changes. All of that because I started to explore the wiki; instead of building I started reading. The commands section in particular, and started following links. For example; the header above the Residence commands turned out to be a link pointing to a separate page. That's where I fully learned about unclaiming and moving.

So my point being: just because the info isn't in plain sight doesn't mean it isn't there. After 5 hours in the game I was already capable of directing my friends and myself towards a plot which bordered each other. Better yet: most of my friends were also quite capable to pick up on it and move towards us (some moved from other servers).

I think the features we have should be designed so that not understanding them initially does not penalize us later. I think you would agree that most of our features are either designed that way or inherently so.

When I joined in March of 2012, there was no Wiki to study. There was a page on Residence commands, Shop signs, and the Empire rules as I recall. There were no such thing as Senior Staff Services. The only consideration I gave to what Residence I claimed was that it was next to my friend, who had randomly chosen it.

Only a minority of players ever spend much time on the forum and access the information here. Even if they do, some of the information, like Residence size and the fact that we have Biomes on what by all other appearance is a superflat map are not explicitly documented. The only thing I can find in the Wiki regarding Residence size is that they are 60x60. Being able to change Biomes implies that they are there but it is not on the Residence page so no one would find it unless they were looking for it or by accident.

I disagree with you 100%. Our systems are designed to be as fair to all as possible.

Also. Our Contribution Team does an awesome job on the wiki.

You consider the problem we have been discussing a reward instead of a penalty then? I notice the phrasing you used included the words "as possible".

I never said anything about the job the Wiki team is doing. Please explain to me how my stating that it didn't even exist when I started here is a criticism of them. Even if it were documented, that does not change the fact that you can't bridge between some Residences.

From a design standpoint, I am pretty confident in saying that trying to penalize players who do not understand features is not ever intended. I guess I can agree that players who don't know about features initially are inherently more likely to later regret some choices.

The wiki and Sr Staff services are part of the continued effort to improve understanding/access to features.

I regret trying to participate in this thread and am Unwatching it. Feel free to argue semantics without me.

If I don't see an announcement saying that bridging my Residences is possible, I'll eventually fork over the Rupees and move them.

Sounds like the perfect reason to send in a wiki update suggestion

Although the contribution team does do a great job on the wiki, there's only so much one can do. And that's where the community comes in. In my opinion the wiki is more or less a community effort in the end. Sure; the contribution team maintains it; but they're always open to suggestions and updates coming from the community they've build it for.

But yah, I agree that the res. biome change isn't explicitly mentioned on the residence page. But here's the thing: I also think it has no place there. Because it's not really a command or action which the player can do on his residence.

And there's also something else you need to consider: too much information can actually set up the opposite effect of what you're trying to achieve. Setting up documentation is more than merely providing as much (relevant) information as possible

You also need to make sure the information remains accessible. And that's the real trick.

Every biome is different in some way, yes, so not all residences are equal, but I think it's pretty balanced. You just made having an ice biome sound like a hindrance, then made it sound like an unfair advantage. This results in balance. You have to put up with one thing that others do not, but you also get something they don't. In an ice biome, you have to deal with water freezing, and your crops don't grow as fast, but you also get to produce ice from the comfort and safety of your res. In a desert biome, your crops grow faster, but your plant material looks dead and gross. In a swamp biome, you can produce blue orchids, but all your water looks like mucky sewer water. Also, yes, you can place snow caps in a desert biome - check out 4487 on smp2.

The very first thing I did upon entering the Town of the recently created smp2, before selecting a residence, was check the livemap to find a nice spot. Go, right now, and open up a livemap in another tab and zoom all the way out, so you can see the whole Town, like a new player would do if they were deciding on a location. What do you immediately notice? A bunch of little squares, some online players, sure. Also quite prominent are those big splotches of dark green: swamp biomes. Upon closer inspection, you realize the whole Town is made up of naturally shaped biomes, despite being a superflat world. I picked my residence based on its location, the first three rules of real estate, knowingly committing to an ugly desert biome, after weighing the pros and cons. This was on my first day, about 1200 days ago, with whatever documentation I was given at the time. I think the only problem with the current system is that it automatically gives you a residence now, instead of telling you to pick one out. This was for the sake of convenience, I'm guessing, but to me it discourages players from putting more thought into where they want to live, and causes them problems down the road when they realize the issues with their res, after already getting invested in it.

Why do you say a corner res would be undesirable? If anyone should know a thing or two about corner reses, it would be me, and I think they're great. They're away from all the big skyscrapers and sorting systems, so neighbour-created lag isn't an issue. But okay, you say it's because they're wedged behind two thick roads, yeah? Well first of all, they still have two thin roads behind them, in the very corner, so you can still have that extra width, building up high. But what you're saying, as I see it, is that because the 4-wide roads can be built over to halfway, the 13-wide ones should be too, and because they're not, the more 4-wide roads you have touching your res, the better, because it means a bigger res beyond y:128. If you could build above the 13-wide ones, then you would have 6 more blocks of width in the directions with those roads (and what about the middle block, by the way?), making the reses with more 13-wide roads touching them the more desirable kind. If you're advocating that everyone should have an equal res, how is this a solution? In the case of bridging two reses, you're no longer talking about a new player and his one res. I think that if you own two adjacent reses (or have permission from the adjacent owner, etc.), then you should be able to bridge the two above y:128 regardless of the thickness of the road, but this idea of everyone having the ability to build above half of a road (what is half of 13?), without any claim on the adjacent reses, doesn't make sense to me. When you get a plot, you are told it is a 60x60x256 space, not a 60x60x128 space with a 72x68x128 (or whatever) space sitting on top of it. The reason some people thought the ability to build above half of the 4-wide roads was a bug is because it is unfair, and doesn't make sense.

Basically, to me, you shouldn't be able to build above half of any roads above y:128 in the first place, but I would be happy to see an adjustment at some point that allows you to build over the whole road if, say, you have the admin flag on both residences. This way, it's all checked in the code, and there's no need to bring in Senior Staff, etc.