It shows who did it, that's about it though. Not why, how, what their intent was, ect. All circumstantial, besides the transactions. It's clear it's not fair on you, but as professional staff they have to be fair on the people that did it, too.
A) If they did understand that it was a present chest, it wasn't fair to take more than one. B) If it was just a chest-shop for them, then 1r per diamond is an obvious mistake, so it isn't fair to buy. C) Anything else? Any scenario where taking more than one from that chest is justifiable? BTW, due to some kind people, the chest isn't empty any more! One per person please!
Indeed, but then it wouldn't be fair on the people that took them if staff instantly assumed they saw the sign, assumed the sign was there, ect. As ICC said earlier, nothing can be confirmed or denied. Also circumstantial that the player knew/didn't know it was a mistake. Punishments should only be handed out in cases such as this (mistakes on shop signs) when it's obvious in the transactions. Not necessarily justifiable, but defend-able Of course, I can safely say I think that the players were rude and you didn't "pretend" the sign was there, this is all just for discussion.
Well, in my opinion, they should get a tempban for stealing. Because I am pretty sure, it was no accident for anyone to take more than one diamond. Whether the sign saying only take one hadn't or had been up, they abused the shop, and stole. Even if they were new players, they should have known the rules, and there should be no exceptions, no technicalities, no need for more proof.
The thing is though, they didn't abuse the shop system itself. Abuse of the shop system comes down to the situations where someone used to mix up a buy/sell number, so you could say buy a diamond for 30 and sell it back to them for 40 over and over again, simply because they misplaced the numbers. In this case, the seller intended the price to be 1 diamond and most likely had a sign up asking players to only take one diamond. Unfortunately, since as stated, we can't confirm the players saw it (we can assume they did...but can't punish on assumptions) they didn't officially break any punishable rules. Did they break trust of some players? Absolutely.
Yes, there is no mistake in the price, Manic simply intended for these diamonds to be a gift to other players and charged 1r so the purchases would be tracked. This issue here is that people took more than one.
I don't see language as a barrier when it comes to the language of Rupees. We all speak it and anyone who saw this couldn't have thought that this was a normal Chest set up for profit. The timing of the transactions are important. Were the Diamonds bought on separate occasions by people who aren't related? In that case, all but the last player are saved by the fact that none of them bought every single one. Was there an "OMG everybody! 1R Diamonds!" in Chat followed by a frenzy of Sign clicking? If a rule was broken, it was rule against being disrespectful. There's been no mention of any Staff looking at Chat and comparing it to the transaction times. But we can't expect them to wade into a bloody mess like that and feel right about what happens after. I know I wouldn't feel good about it. Manic meant to give Diamonds away and they did not go to the people he meant them to go to. He also set things up in such a way that some people would have a very hard time resisting and I think he's smart enough and has been here long enough to know that. I've seen a lot of borderline events like this in my time here and punishing these guys sets a harsh precedent I'd rather not see. That being said, I'd like to know who the top four on his list are and more detail about the sequence of events so I know who did what and when. Not to punish them, since they haven't strictly broken any rules. I'd rather not buy Diamonds from any of them for sure. I'd certainly want to watch them if I ever put them in a position of trust, working on my Residence, for example. I think I have the right to know so that I have the opportunity to decide for myself whether I want to have any dealings with them, and if I do, how.
remarkably well thought out pab, i think the best thing to do would be to circulate the names of the more prevalent offenders amongst the bigger shop owners to make them aware of the dishonest behavior. basically setting sanctions against them forcing them to buy from /shop. buying a stack of diamonds isnt really worth it when you have to spend 1k on wooden logs
Of course not I'd like to stress again: I'm not angry (any more) and I'm not looking for revenge / punishment. It would be nice to get the diamonds back, but above all to know what to expect and how do rules apply. Exactly - under assumption that that person recognized the intention. Otherwise, perhaps the rule about not abusing mistakes. I did /report two players where I have no means to contact them, but I did not give any further details yet. I guess it would be ok to share the information about what happened with friends and playmates, but not publish the names in the forum. (?) Player A: - no forum account - first sign-in around 70 days ago - 2013-12-28 22:41 - (same minute) : takes 24 diamonds - comes again 37 minutes later: - 2013-12-28 23:18 - 2013-12-28 23:19 : takes 28 diamonds EDIT: has returned diamonds after being contacted online Player B: apologized and returned diamonds Player C: - stated age: 16 - does not use forum - first sign-in around 160 days ago - 2013-12-27 03:29 - 2013-12-27 03:30 (within 2 min): takes 31 diamonds Player D: - stated age: 14 - does not use forum - first sign-in around 420 days ago - 2013-12-26 13:24 : takes 7 diamonds - 2013-12-26 13:25 : returns 9 diamonds (!) - 2013-12-26 13:37 : returns one more, than takes one again - comes again few days later: - 2013-12-30 12:51 : takes 29 diamonds - sum: took 27 diamonds So what do I think of them now? I guess they did not believe that I can or that I will check who took how many diamonds. Other 2-3 players: did not bother to contact them, will write a forum msg ... perhaps. True. I thought though, if I write that I WILL check, that people will believe it and that that should be enough to counter the "freeee diamondzzz!" temptation. I also expected that some will take two or even three diamonds, but I wouldn't mind that. Same here. No harsh punishments needed. IMO, a warning would be beneficial. But more important - giving the community an idea about that border here in this thread: what is EMC policy and what is the implementation. As you wrote above, they did break the rule about being respectful. That's an interesting topic. If it would be acceptable and if it would work that a group of players shares a kind of "black list." I'm not sure about that. Some time ago I was thinking about a system which maintains a network of friends and passes distinct information according to "distance" between two people and specified "trust"... But it's complicated
Since this player took so many I'd like to know the circumstances. I think something like that would be prone to abuse and maybe more trouble than it is worth. I just want the information so I can deal intelligently with them.
Well, then, I guess that is punishment enough; guilt and no trust from others. In the future, a message in the shop should be included saying what Manic had on the signs... like the [slot 1] sell and buy signs, where it shows enchants. So there is no miscommunication... Just a possible solution to make sure they understood. It's like the frontier outposts, people must follow EMC rules and the rules of the outpost, be it no building anywhere but your 10 x 10 piece of land, whatever. This would be similar, just in the sense they follow the rules of the shop.
I just met the "Player A" online and he apologized "I misread the signs" and returned some diamonds and the diamond armor he made out of them. I guess he was embarrassed, because he threw his "turkey slicer" at me as well (instead of another diamond sword?) and then disconnected. So now I need to find a way to return his "slicer"...
I think it's interesting that (some) people are actually apologizing now and returning the diamonds. Why did you keep quoting me though?
So, the story continues, as "Player D" contacted me over the Forum: So, "Player D" can read and write - and understands English. Did he (or she) break any rules?
I am pretty sure that they didn't break any rules, but the way they try to play off their supposed friendship to a mod as an attempt to quiet you (reverse extortion?) is very irresponsible. I would pass their name around to reputable shops and players. No one wants a customer who would try to bully them in any situation.
