Stealing Christmas presents?

Discussion in 'Empire Help & Support' started by M4ster_M1ner, Jan 9, 2014.


How shuld they be treated?

Warned to return diamonds 31 vote(s) 50.8%
Banned from the shop 46 vote(s) 75.4%
Reported to mods / admins 27 vote(s) 44.3%
Banned from EMC (temporary) 10 vote(s) 16.4%
Banned from EMC (permanent, with option for second chance) 5 vote(s) 8.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Hey people.

    At the entrance of my shop (12162 on smp6) I've set up a chest with a Christmas present for my customers and suppliers - one diamond per person.
    I've put price of 1r:1r for 1 diamond just to be able to check if someone will take more then one.

    I've also put a signs around it reading "Christmas present - One per person!" and that I WILL check...

    Around 60 people took one diamond each, but 7 people abused it and took
    A: 52 diamonds,
    B: 178 diamonds, but then returned 130 diamonds (so I guess he will return the rest 47 diamonds as well),
    C: 31 diamonds,
    D: 27 diamonds,
    E and F: 8 diamonds,
    G: 5 diamonds

    I'm wondering about the mindset of people who would do that, but ...

    My question here is about how I should treat them.

    I feel that this is very well griefing.
  2. PM mods/sr staff about this one I would say. They will have the best idea on what to do, and if these people should be punished or not etc.

    I would also suggest removing their move from your residence, whether it is temporarily or permanently, to teach them a lesson.

    Hope this helps, FDNY21.
  3. Ban from shop for sure and report to mods...i would consider that griefing so maybe a temp ban but never back on your res
  4. Warn them, and PM moderators about the issue. Granted, it does seem it would've been smarter to not put 100+ diamonds in this chest.. but meh
    I wouldn't say remove their move. They may possibly return it.
    607 and M4nic_M1ner like this.
  5. I think you should have seen this coming. I would tell them to return the diamonds and if they refuse ban them from the shop and/or contact a staff member.
    FirstJugBurgerz and M4nic_M1ner like this.
  6. I would consider this obvious abuse of a shop sign, which is an offense that the staff need to know about.
  7. This, basically.
    I would only say remove move if they did not return them.

    Just PM staff, and they will advise you on what to do, or what actions they will take :)
    Olaf_C and M4nic_M1ner like this.
  8. Unfortunately, some players do not have a forum account, so I have no means to contact them. :confused:

    I know, but I was going to a trip - I was absent for a week - and I wanted to have enough diamonds in that chest.

    I was thinking about it, but then again, if I write that I WILL check, what do they think will happen?!?
    607, Bro_im_infinite and FDNY21 like this.
  9. This seems like the most sensible solution. Contacting a staff member maybe get you somewhere, but I doubt it. What the 7 players did wasn't griefing, it was closer to scamming.

    It is up to the shop owner if they would like to limit a chest shop, or make sure players only get one of each and IMO it is not the buyers responsibility to buy only 1, as you made it possible (and had the knowledge that some people would buy more) so it's just merely rude and disrespectful of them because you had a sign asking them not to. :)
  10. You're assuming that it is the shop in the first place, but I thought that having "Christmas present" and "one per person" etc. signs around and 1 Diamond 1r:1r makes it more present chest than a shop...
    I guess it is, or IMO should be legitimate to expect from EMC public to understand and respect that (?)
    Trapper777 and 607 like this.
  11. i mean most of the public did, some people are just greedy, id advise telling some of the other shop owners on that server (hmm i wonder which one) and potentially making it where those players can only shop outside of the server thus wasting vault. you could pm me the names of the worse offenders however and ill see what i can do
    Bro_im_infinite likes this.
  12. If you wanted to make it a "present chest", [ACCESS] signs could have been used as one of their purposes. Personally, I think that if you set up a shop sign, whoever buys and however much they take is up to the shopper as you made it all available. :)
    I suppose this brings up a different aspect of it. In my opinion, expecting it is one thing, but then treating them as a rule breaker and punishing them is different.

    Of course, it was very kind of you to offer free gifts, and it was very rude of those 7 people to take advantage of your kindheartedness, but punishing them wouldn't be reasonable IMO as all they broke was your trust in the players, not any rules. :)
  13. As Alex has said, this is something that was very kind of you to do...however, there are a lot of factors that come in to play that sets this as an instance that we as staff wouldn't want to get involved with in terms of punishments. As it used the shop feature, from a standpoint of rules, they did nothing wrong. Then we have a few more things such as language barriers. It's possible some people may not have known English well and didn't read the signs. It's also a situation where, a staff member, assuming we would punish for this, would have had to been watching it 24/7 to make sure there actually was a sign with that specific rule there the entire time.

    More or less, your best solution here is to simply take those names and blacklist them from your properties so that they don't have the ability to do things such as this in the future when you hold them.
  14. I don't really understand how someone could buy over 20 diamonds for 1r each and not even thinking there is something weird about this. Even when they can't read English. I do understand that there isn't a rule against it since it was technically as shop, and as long as you pay you can get the items. It's very rude for sure though.
    Pab10S and xI_LIKE_A_PIGx like this.
  15. We agree, but as said, technically didn't break the rules.
    Ark_Warrior1 likes this.
  16. Although what you did was extremely kind and was 'kind of' your fault (not trying to sound mean). Not saying that the EMC community is bad, but the fact is you cannot trust anyone online (or in real life for that matter nowadays) however, probably around 90+% are all good and well mannered people on EMC. There are just some people out there that don't care. Although it would've been a much slower process, you could have set a thread up and people could post if they wanted one, then you could set up an access chest, not an ideal solution, but much safer. :)
    I would consider abusing a gift sign being a jerk. Language can be figured out by checking IPs and figuring out where they live. If they live in a country with a high number of English speakers, then they speak English. In fact, its easier than that. Just check the chat logs, which will clearly show if they know any English. On the sign, it specifies the number in English and a numeral, with very basic English used. There are only three accounts that have build on his stated res, and it would be possible to check and see if they are alts and if they visited his shop at all. One of the accounts hasn't been on in five days, and so I would suspect that they couldn't have changed anything since then. If any account did get rid of the sign and replace it eventually, the sign would show up in the logs. If the sign was ever down, it would have had to been replaced since it is currently up. If the OP replaced it at some point, it would be able to determine when it was down due to the time difference of when he logged in after his holiday leave, and when the new sign was created. If anyone used the shop in that time period, they could be considered innocent.

    Based off of the quoted post's criteria, and the linked post's criteria, I think that it should be possible to determine if they abused it. If that doesn't fall under the linked post's ruling, then I think that extensive clarification for different situations needs to be added to the wiki.
  18. However, the major factor that makes the difference between someone purposely taking advantage of a shop sign exploit, and several people being rude and disregarding what was expected of them, is that in the thread you linked, the person:
    • Stole rupees from the shop sign owner without their consent; AKA scamming
    • Took advantage of a mistake that the owner had no knowledge about
    • Can be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt, because of the rupees history tool.
    This is most definitely worthy of punishment, but then when someone is rude and disregards their trust, for reasons stated above, it just wouldn't be reasonable to punish those 7 people in terms of moderation, even though what they did was very rude (if they were aware). :)