Rebalancing the Empire Economy [slow induce]

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Aikar, Jan 22, 2014.


Thoughts on stimulating the economy (Note: Decision made, see post)

Leave it alone (please provide evidence/reasoning) 63 vote(s) 25.2%
Gradual increase until 10x lift 37 vote(s) 14.8%
Gradual increase until 25x lift 22 vote(s) 8.8%
Gradual increase until things are healthy and stable 105 vote(s) 42.0%
Don't care either way. 23 vote(s) 9.2%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ** NOTE: Based on some feedback, I've decided on another solution that does not raise the daily bonus, see this! Thanks everyone for feedback. We will not be re-evaluating rupees! **

    Hi everyone.

    This is a discussion I think 72volt will love to have...

    Contrary to popular belief, I am not out to ruin the economy :) I research and optimize economic things on a daily basis (specially now with the business) and was a major economy player in other games.

    One of the biggest problems I see with the Empire Economy is that the scale is so low. Prices for items are in the single digits, and even stacks go for prices of less than a single rupee per item.

    This is extremely dangerous for an economy, as it makes it EXTREMELY difficult to be competitive in pricing. When an iron ingot goes for 2r.... you can't compete with that price or else you undercut the market and your income by 50%!

    So lately i'm sure everyone's noticed that rupee rewards are getting larger, more promos being released, and more items that the richer players will value.

    It's been a silent goal to hopefully stimulate the economy, getting money circulating and hopefully raise the price on some items.

    But I do not believe its been enough since prices haven't really moved although the buying power is there more.

    I am wanting to raise the amount of daily rupee income too, to help instill some more inflation.
    Note, do not be scared to see the word inflation. Right now, It's what the economy needs, to help balance things out more efficiently.

    Consider if we raised everything 10x. Iron Ingots would now be 20r, giving flexability to set iron price to 18-25r a piece.

    A single piece of Cobblestone could actually be competitive in pricing.

    Dirt might would actually be worth a selling price of say 20r for a stack!

    So I ask for your thoughts on this idea, and to what scale should we take it?

    If you have any concerns against the idea please be very specific with facts on how it would hurt the economy to raise rupee incomes, as right now the facts show we clearly have problems and an unhealthy economy.

    Even if shop owners did not raise prices, more new players with higher rupee balances would provide more demand, and those shops will sell out quick, which then opens the door for them to consider raising prices.

    This would be healthy for the economy.

    We welcome your feedback!
  2. Aikar trying to fix the economy? Is this another joke thread?
    Kidding aside, I would love for the higher rupees for higher voting bonuses to be added pretty soon.
    But other than that, this sounds pretty good. Although we will still need volt's input on this.
    Gap542, jtc0999, thestar19 and 16 others like this.
  3. I personally say leave it be, you can't change the economy in the real world to suit, and doing so normally ends up with problems. People like the 2r per ingot... and hey, 1.8 is going to change that
  4. I'm a fan; I don't like the fact that whenever I have to re-do my shop signs, I'll check iron prices and they're down to 4r, then 3r, then 2r, as the example you gave.

    A downside is that people with different join times won't really be at an equal balance/opportunity, but my counter to that is that it happens anyway because someone who joined a month ago would have more rupees more quickly than someone who joined 12 months ago anyway with the vote increases, tutorial rewards, 60k rupees, ect.

    I do think it should be done gradually. So increasing specific bonuses over time, until it's at maybe 10x, then 6 months (?) 25x.
  5. Real world economics and game economies are polar opposites.

    You very well can manipulate in game economies. I did it a ton in other games and got very rich from it... Only If the real world economy was as susceptible!

    But if you like a 2r ingot, if we inflate 10x, then 20r is still the exact same price.

    When your sitting on 40k rupees, you won't mind if that Iron Ingot costs 25r.
    smile3, JediMama and Equinox_Boss like this.
  6. I agree with BFInc, 1.8 Is going to change slimeballs, and other "Useless" things to our liking...
  7. I think a 10x inflation is suit. Simply multiply ALL players money by 10, multiply all shop buying and selling prices by 10, voting bonuses, etc etc.

    Im sure you can come up with some sort of program to do this automatically :)
    Dragonhawk32 and Equinox_Boss like this.
  8. We wouldn't want to go messing with the current numbers, but just let things balance themselves out.
  9. Well if you did that then you wouldn't have to balance anything, things would be just as balanced as before, just everything multiplied by 10.
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  10. So if you do a real 10x inflation then you have to multiply everyone's rupee account by 10, and multiply the daily bonuses by 10.
    Seems drastic imo.
    Shops need time to adjust prices.
    Equinox_Boss and xI_LIKE_A_PIGx like this.
  11. We would not modify anyones numbers, just a going forward new logins gets more money, rewards for things increases etc.

    This would let the process "slowly" happen, and as you said, gives people time to adjust. The free players are some of the biggest buying power there is, so giving them more access to rupees is where things will start to really boom.

    The shops will run out of stock quicker, therefor inviting room for price increase.

    It would not be an instant change to the economy, but more of policy changes that are designed to slowly grow the economy to a more healthy status.
  12. Wouldn't this also decrease the value of our rupees? so people that have worked hard before this get their rupees would be overwhelmed by the new pricing of items that used to be really cheap i.e. dirt, iron, cobble ect
  13. 1.8 will help a lot with emeralds (no more infinite villagers) and iron+Gold farms. For me, this thread just screams communism. I think you have great idea's and they can work but how do you plan to implement them? You cannot really make someone change he price on their sign. Most people would go along but someone who no longer plays and has a shop (lets assumed it is still somehow stocked and they are a supporter). Do you kind of see where I am going with this? I think we should have cents (the term for rupee is paisa i believe). People could still compete price wise without having to do anything drastic. I think this is a great idea, i just think it will be hard to reach the goal.
  14. That is roughly the idea, to keep a similiar value comparison to items, but increase the scale.

    Everything would be identical as it is today in "Value compared to Income", but much more flexibility with pricing.
    JediMama and Equinox_Boss like this.
  15. It wouldn't be instant so no, and I would say that richer players have the better end of the deal, as they would be the main ones in control of the prices.

    Part of playing economics and getting richer is, the more money you have, the more you can make...

    For example, a rich player can buy up tons of items and store them then when prices rise, sell them, making insane profit.
  16. I do see the logic here, but there is the one problem, that shop owners just invest into more iron farms get more iron, sell it on. Its either as I see:

    Shop owners take up the price of materials and the economy starts to heal

    Shop owners just get more iron and start making more money as people can afford it

    Shop owners take up the price of materials but people don't want to pay for it as the price has gone up, so look for the cheaper alternatives meaning the economy goes back to now
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  17. An inactive players shop would sell out within days/weeks. This thread is more about the long term health of the EMC economy. Once that shop sells out (which a single shop owner could do to resell), then their shop is no longer part of the economy and can be ignored.

    I'm not sure what you mean about communism though. This really has nothing about communism attached to it (Maybe you are thinking communism means something else?).

    I'm not talking about forcing people to do something, but more of setting things in motion that things will improve on their own through the players own control.
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  18. This is natural economics. If absolutely no players feel they can afford a price, then that price might be too high for the current economic state.

    Also, if shop owners create more supply with more iron farms, that is also natural economics. Supply and demand controls prices.

    The intent of this discussion is to build more demand, as right now our supply GREATLY outweighs the demand.

    With more demand, the economy will get healthier.
    Equinox_Boss likes this.
  19. Jeb posted on his twitter he was removing the nerf for iron and gold farms, too many people didnt like it.
    Ep_Sabers and Equinox_Boss like this.
  20. Agreed. An excerpt from my economics textbook:
    "[Money should be] easily divisible into different values so that transactions of varying amounts can be settled using money."
    When many transactions which take place are 1r, but the value of the product is under 1r, the seller incurs a small deficit, and the buyer incurs a small surplus. This is, however, insignificant, the main issue would probably be that one can buy large volumes of useful items with their daily bonus.

    For those who sell in small quantities, maybe, but I think you'll find that those who sell in bulk are able to avoid this. If I buy 100 iron ingots for 100r, I can sell them for a total of 199r, which is a price competitive to anyone selling ingots 2r a piece. I wouldn't call it extremely dangerous, but it does work in the favor of those who have the capital to buy in bulk, and it would work against new players, so I believe it is a problem.

    yay, moar rupees

    I cannot see any issues, best of luck!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.