I just want to make it clear as the rules stand. If you are caught killing ANYONE for ANY REASON you will get banned. If someone is greifing you, take a screenshot and send it to a mod/admin and action WILL be taken
Yes it will work but sometimes it might not work because they could teleport before you get the picture
One reason people get away with griefing...:/ one I have to be there when they grief, and 2 I have o get an admin to believe it was griefing... What is the definition I griefing, obviously we can't kill someone so they won't grief that way...
I personally think that setting up "passive defenses" like traps is against the rules. You are intentionally building it to harm another player (griefer or not) and it is really no different than setting that person on fire yourself. I would like an admin to reply to this thread and clear up this rule because I am reading a lot about people setting up traps in the wild. I like to check out the cool stuff people build out there (without griefing of course) and I would hate to die and lose all my stuff just because you didn't secure your valuables in town and felt the need to place lava traps all over the place.
Teleporting isn't able to be done...unless ur an admin. If ur inside the spawn point then you can't steal anything anyway...
I'd think the opposite is the case. Passive defenses with warning signs stating such are in place should be legal. They've been warned the area is trapped and if they continue and cause themselves to die then they deserved it... It's not like they can't dig past defenses anyway if they're good. If you enter someone's area without permission, that's against the rules as well if you didn't notice that part. Since securing valuables in the extreme wild areas (such as the areas i work in) you can't exactly just run back to town everytime you find a diamond or two but I don't want to have to risk losing the same things to lava, so i secure it up in a box or something, then i have to worry about someone going into my box and violating the rules of the server. Seems that a war torn wild area is what it should be so people who go out there will have to risk the same level where it gives them the opportunity to defend their own things. If they leave it out there with such a system in place then it's their own fault. As it sits this system protects griefers from losing their lives when stealing things from other players and leaves them with very little risk to go and steal thus encouraging it. A passive defense system at least allows us some recourse to stop others. Yes this can lead to other methods of just griefing with no reason, but that's what you risk everytime you go out in the wild on any other server. As it sits guys like me who have to follow the rules of the server must try to live within the rules. The best I can do is make it more profitable for someone to help out instead of stealing. But there are those who even with that profit in place will take that profit and then add to it and steal as well... Instead of locking up all my areas, i allow for people to enter my areas, and welcome them to come in the hopes they will leave my stuff alone and just pass through. I also have to hide everything in deep holes in the ground, hidden rooms and other methods which can be discovered with a cleaver person then after I've done everything possible to prevent someone from stealing, if someone goes that far to seek out my hiding places, clearly they have no intention of living within the rules of the server. Who is to say that the box i open (because I placed it, filled it and used it) someone woudln't take a screenshot of me "stealing" their items from the same box? The way you declare something is your is by force. Either by force of an admin or by my own sword / bucket of lava...
As far as I'm concerned, this is the case. If I was mining and somebody put a 'passive defense' at the entrance to my mine and I fell in it, I would be a bit upset. Same would go if I was walking through the wild and I saw a random chest. Of course, chest = settlement, as nobody places chests randomly in the wild, so I would check it out, maybe do some anti-griefing by donating some items. If I was killed by a 'passive defense' while doing this, I would be a bit upset again.. Suffice to say that 'passive defense' might as well be you standing on a rampart with a lava bucket. The 'offender' is still dying, and you're still the one to blame.
I'd agree to what you say here. These are examples of what becomes of the wild when they discover someone's hole and they want to grief. IMO this is griefing. Not laying traps to keep out unwanted visitors. This is someone who's trapping someone in their own area. I always am aware of this possibility whenever i'm moving around and thus I move in methods that don't lead to falling into these traps. I only exit one way, enter another etc...Seems rather crazy that the players who play within the realm of the rules are being punished by those who have no intention of following them.
The reason we need a screenshot is just simply we need some proof. I mean if you want us to just take peoples word I could just say you stole something and you are banned. Another reason we need proof is, (if i remember right) we don't log everything, (imagin tryin to read logs of a minimum of 150 players everyday) so it would be he said / she said, and whos side do we take? As for traps.. I personaly can't say if they are allowed. i think if there is a sign posted in the area giving warning it's fine, but again this is only my personal opinion. See the problem is if we allow traps, what type of traps do we allow? Do we let people build them anywhere? How do we decide when a trap is made to grief and when it is made to protect? As for some protection in the wild, I do know Justin is working on locking chest in the wild. Hopefully that can help a little. To address this can i ask how you are being punished? We have a very nice system to prevent greifing. If you don't want to use this system and build in the wild, that is fine. But when you build in the wild you agree to NO proctection.
I agree to this. I understand it's an issue to deal with and logs are insanely large so don't misunderstand me. The whole system of defend yourself is where you get around that sort of thing. If players settle their own disputes via PvP then clearly that's how superiority is gained and therefore it would protect their area. If someone like me wanted to setup an area on the map where anyone could go, and I setup my own defenses against griefers, admins wouldn't need to be involved anyway. I understand most people wouldn't agree to that. Also don't misunderstand that I do like the system we have in place where the rules are clearly stated we cannot PvP, which is one of the reasons I came here. The town area rules are clearly there and if you give out access to someone and they grief you, well there's plenty of people around who can provide screenshots to what was going on obviously. It's the extreme wild areas that are far from admins, and the town area I'm mainly speaking of. The he said / she said issues would be resolved as in the wild could be an "anything goes" area, where people will get griefed and if they choose to live out there (as I do) they'd agree to the risk of doing so as I expect and constantly watch for griefers anyway. When people enter my area, i'm usually there to meet them anyway because I'm watching the map for them constantly. Course I have to trust the other supporters who can hide that they won't grief my area when they're hidden on the map. In an anything goes system this wouldn't be an issue at all. But in the case of our server I'd have to side with the guy who had signs up. But that's my opinion. If a guy wants to come and take over the area by laying traps for the person who has signs out, obviously in this system, you have to side with whoever was there first...Course this means that if someone comes in the game late, and someone like me has established himself in the wild, i could litterally bully people out of a huge area of the wild if I choose to. The new guy coming in, could take my area by way of PvP and gaining forces and support. That's the beauty of a system like that. The larger your area of influence is, the more resources you need to defend it if you deem it worthy of being kept. yes this will help greatly for our existing system. Thanks! it would remove all the problems I think we'd have, then we wouldn't need passive defense systems anyway. I'd also hope there would be a way to setup a shop in the wild where you could rent the use of a bed to another user, or sell food / supplies for travelers who are going long distances. The system is flawed is all i'm saying. When you say there is no protection, then it also says to me that an admin would side with no one and allow it to happen no matter what. I'm sure you guys have brains on your head so I won't say you wouldn't do anything because I know you'd do everything you could. But, you take away the teeth of the animal with the PvP turned off. I'm being punished in the sense that if I witness someone stealing from me, i lose whatever is stolen, and if I kill the guy in retaliation then I'm banned as if I was griefing. That's a punishment to me when i choose to do something that helps out other playeres by allowing them access into my areas. A system of permissions is pretty complicated to code i'm sure. The game was developed to have a PvP aspect. The town is a nice little area people can work in with safety and other things which is great for those who want to build stuff and setup shops and such. Those that decide to venture into the wild should have some risk. This increases the rupee value of whatever you collect for those that choose to play in town and build without risk. No one is required to go into the wild though. You can buy stuff from the empire store, or other players and they can also just grab what they can and run away in the wild. A system that would allow a player to teleport to their bed in the wild would provide them a method of getting around gankers who camp the red line and such so that wouldn't be a problem. At any rate this is stuff for another server, what applies here is as you stated above, someone provides a screenshot with me inside a box and say it was theirs, i'm banned just as fast as they said "He griefed me" and you have to take his word at it. Or the flipside is I take a screenshot saying someone's in my box, after i said "go ahead and take whever you want" then snap a picture off and say he's griefing me... stuff like that. How does one prove it's theirs or they weren't given permissions ahead of time? Is there a method for you guys to see who originally deployed said box or see a chat log, know the location of the incident and know who's got a claim to what out in the wild? If so then that's obviously a mute point. As it is, the wild is an area where no one can say "this is mine" as it's supposed to be public domain. To me the only thing public domain is the items unmined in the ground not what's in the boxes around the building i built. Even the building I built could be demolished and the raw materials can be taken...So what kind of defense do I have for that? I saw someone dumping lava on the live map at one point in my town. I took a screenshot of it, but how do I know it wasn't just a mistake or accident? The screenshots can be flawed and only one point of view. How is it possible to determine when someone took something from someone's box and when someone just had the item before walking up? On top of that, if I was banned wrongly, during the time of appeals for the infraction, all my items are free to be stolen without me being able to see who's in them or being able to provide proof of such a steal. Then when i get back in, all my boxes have been emptied and I can't see who took it all and no one would have any sympathy for me because I was just banned for "stealing from others" anyway... These are just situations that I can see happening, so obviously take this with a grain of salt and as I stated before I'm sure you guys would look at the whole situation and not just toss out a ban without at least getting both sides. It's just a system that requires you to have at least something more than just a single person's word. I can just see a system like this being a nightmare to administrate and moderate. As these servers grow and more people get into them i can see this being a growing problem though. I like the peaceful play aspect and I try to follow those rules, but sometimes I feel like I'm just a victim waiting to happen because I have no way to defend myself against those who don't care about the rules and will break them whenever they want because they just want to see how far they can take it and such. If Justin can get the security setup for boxes in the wild then I think it'll remove this argument anyway. With that in place, we wouldn't need any passive defenses and people who setup traps in the wild will stand out clearly because those aren't allowed anyway. Before the wild was reset before, my friends and I discovered several traps out there and constantly were trying to seal them up as well. However, it's a losing battle a lot of the time. In the meantime we need to have something in place to protect those who are playing within the rules is all i'm asking.
Here's the short version since you don't want to read the post: If you ask first, you will more than likely be allowed into my areas, but if you don't, then you'll be reported for griefing until another method can be implemented. I'd vote to have the wild designated as PvP and I'd accept the chances that people will grief me in exchange for the ability to not have to worry about annoying admins to resolve griefing situations in the wild. I think admins and moderators would like their load lightened of those issues to resolve, but maybe I'm wrong...
I did really read your other post, but this one is easier to reply to. The problem with letting people defend with pvp again, it's turns it into he said / she said. I could run out and kill someone, and before the mod shows up just lay a chest down and say i was protecting it. I understand what you are saying and want, nor do i disagree with what you are saying. I just don't think that would work for this server. I think a lot pf people come here because of the fact they don't have to worry about pvp at all. Nor do they have to worry about their house (if they build in town)
Fair enough... Point is, if the dispute is PvP determined, the admin shouldn't care. The victor of the combat gets all the spoils. Win or lose everything you own. It's a harsh method obviously but it's a lot easier to police. Who's to say the ganker wouldn't lose to the person he's attacking? Say everyone in the town knows the guy who got attacked, he goes out and says "Help XXX is attacking me." They all leave their houses and come out to defend the guy, the ganker dies and they split his stuff up and everyone goes home. They retrieve the items that were lost from the other player, and then return them to him and the attacker thinks twice next time when he attacks that player or someone else. That's what I'd do - Go to the wild in parties and work together. Isn't that the point of the game? Then yes there could potentially be large wars, which would destroy items and leave permant scars in the land, but if you go far enough out individual gankers will pick the closer people first and attack them. People would develop methods for getting rid of those who want to cause problems and then admins wouldn't need to be involved. Your solution to the dispute is, "you're in the wild, you take your own life in your own hands when you go there." The game would then be determined by how the players online want to play and not by those who would be jerks and kill defenseless people who just want to build and have fun. As far as a player is concerned if they want to live in the wild, they setup their own defenses and protect their own land, or lose it. With the destruction of land and property this creates a market for people to buy stuff in the towns as well making rupees much more valuable to players who are in the wild or those that want to be in the wild. This also makes a market for you to sell rupees for real cash to players who run out a lot and thus helps fund the servers and makes it so admins might even be able to be paid one day for their services. Bottom line: The more rules the more policing you have to do. Let the players decide by way of who plays the game better. The guy who can afford to have the best stuff in the game will win over a guy who pops in and says "I think i wanna be a jerk today." and goes and attempts to kill people on a server where everyone decided that the wild is for everyone's use and not their playground for destruction.
And yes, the town area is the nice part of the game. It allows those that do not wish to play in a war torn PVP area a place to have fun with the game in a controlled and policed area with moderators available to assist them when they have people who don't want to play nice in the PvE area. (the town) The rupee system allows them to setup a peaceful village and sell items to other players who don't want to risk PvP and potentially lose everything they own. It also provides them an area to go to where they can store up their secured goods they collected making them much more valuable because of the risk involved in getting it.
I believe somebody somewhere tried to forward the idea of PVP in the empire. The thread got deleted, if I'm not mistaken.. I can't find it . I believe that is about what he said.. Not sure, though. Since the thread was deleted..
