EMC and "maxEntityCramming" (1.11)

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by ForeverMaster0, Sep 9, 2016.


On EMC, what do you think this entity cramming limit should be set to?

This poll will close on Apr 9, 2017 at 10:57 AM.
24 (Vanilla Default) 4 vote(s) 30.8%
0 (Disables Limit/No Limit) 6 vote(s) 46.2%
48-95 0 vote(s) 0.0%
96-127 2 vote(s) 15.4%
128-255 1 vote(s) 7.7%
  1. Hey, EMC.

    Minecraft lead developer Jeb tweeted today about a "maxEntityCramming" game rule he added in 1.11. It's a limiter to how many entities can be packed into the same block(s), before starting to suffocate. The value is set to '24' by default, but can be adjusted like all game rules. Setting the cap to zero (0) disables it.

    Vanilla Command: /gamerule maxEntityCramming [ int (> -1) ]

    The game rule is meant to reduce server-wide lag, but while in effect, mob farms that involve mobs packed together won't work properly, as the mobs will suffocate.

    Farms affected include:

    - Sheep
    - Cow
    - Mooshroom
    - Pig
    - Rabbit

    - Zombie
    - Spider
    - Cave Spider
    - Blaze

    - Guardian
    - Enderman (not all designs)
    - Zombie Pigman (if not aggressive to a Player)

    Based on the current information, I'd say this game rule by default will affect some mob farms on EMC, especially Blaze Farms. Depending on the community's opinions, it might have to adjusted, whether it's increasing the limit or turning it off. Note that we already have entity limitations built in, as in there can only be so many mobs in a residence or Frontier/Wastelands region.;)



  2. My vote is 24 (Vanilla) because it will bring a new challenge - to adapt the farms.
    ShelLuser likes this.
  3. Do we know if the mobs still drop loot after they suffocate to death?
  4. Yes, but not the amount they would if you used looting on them.
    ForeverMaster0 likes this.
  5. Jeb has wanted to do this for quite a while. Nerf the farms a bit. He has never been a big fan of them. It would help decrease the drag on the server potentially.
  6. True, but they pretty much just made AFK item farming far easier.:p
    Vortixin, ShelLuser, Roslyn and 5 others like this.
  7. Yeah but exp farms take a hit and hopefully for EMC this'll help with Enchanted gear and such, but thanks to villager buffs in 1.8 probably not.
  8. Whenever a mob dies, the game checks for the cause, usually for whether or not the player or tamed Wolf attacked that mob in the past 100 ticks (5 seconds).

    Most loot drops regardless of death type.

    Rare Drops and Experience Orbs only appear by "player-death".

    Any mobs killed by the Player or a tamed Wolf, while the Wolf's owner is holding a Looting sword in their Main Hand, more common loot is yielded and any Rare Drops drop more often. The Player's sword isn't required to defeat the mob.

    Mob Loot Category Examples:

    - Gunpowder

    - String

    - Spider Eyes (Requires Player-Death)

    - Blaze Rods (Requires Player-Death)

    - Wither Skeleton Skull

    - Carrot

    - Potato

    - Any Equipment the Mob Spawned With (Armor, Tools, Swords, Bows)

    - EMC-Exclusive Drops

    Suffocation is not a Player-caused death. Thus, Blazes won't drop any rods nor xp. by Entity Cramming, defeating the purpose of current Blaze Farm designs.
    M4ster_M1ner, jkjkjk182 and 607 like this.
  9. Why then if I see a skeleton and it dies from fire from the sun does it still drop things?
    Vortixin, ShelLuser and ESSELEM like this.
  10. Huh? He said a blaze won't drop blaze rods, he didn't say a skeleton won't drop bones of whatever they usually drop.
    ShelLuser and ForeverMaster0 like this.

  11. If nerfing mob farming was Jeb's intent I'm not not sure he really thought it through. Adding the suffocation feature will reduce the appeal of more active farming methods but it will make afk farming easier (as mentioned by jkjkjk182) as you would no longer need to worry about building a kill system or causing localized lag spikes if you let the mobs build up to long.

    This is might effect the quantity of items coming into the market from spawner based farms but on the other hand afk kill systems will no longer be as necessary and it could have some interesting design implications as people try to get around the limit for semi active farming (allowing the mobs to build up and then taking them out).

    Most Guardian farms seem to use some combination methods (falling, fire, and suffocation are the most popular) that work without the benefit of using a looting enchanted item so I'm not sure how much those farms will be effected.

    If exp farming becomes harder it might up the popularity of the mending enchantment.
    Also this might make exp farming enderman popular again. Enderman farms tend to have the most spread out mob concentration area (around 12-16 blocks instead of 1-4) of any xp farm and they still have good xp returns (5 orbs) per kill.

    Also worth noting when it comes to predicting the future of xp farming
    Exp from farmable non-boss mobs:
    Tier 1: 10 orbs (but dangerous to xp farm)
    Tier 2: 5+ orbs (the occasional spawning of a baby/jockey version gives 12 orbs)
    Pig zombie (2x2 concentration platform)
    Tier 3: 5 orbs
    Cave Spider
    Enderman (only mob on this tier that does not come from a spawner)
    Tier 4: 5 orbs (these are possible to farm but their difficult and/or impractical for exp farming purposes)
    Ghast (it's physically possible to do but incredibly difficult to design)
    Wither Skeleton
    Silverfish (their spawners exist but their incredibly rare)
    Slime (technically it's 1-4exp but since killing one spawns more smaller slimes which in turn give exp when they die I'm betting it averages out to around 5 orbs per spawned mob)
  12. True. I guess I was just referring to the description of how in that case it was not a player-caused death but the mob still drops something. It may not apply to blazes. When a mob, or blaze is killed by a piston does it drop something? Does it identify that the piston is a player-caused death? What if the piston is controlled not by the player but a redstone circuit? These might be dumb questions but I'm wondering.
  13. The mob limit is 200 anyway and 8 blocks could hold 192 mobs. Not that hard to design, especially with the new possibilities that 1.9 has brought.
    ShelLuser, MissFable and JesusPower2 like this.
  14. Interesting change. Glad you mentioned it.

    I'm not opposed to it, though.
    ForeverMaster0 likes this.
  15. Blazes have to killed by the Player in order to drop Blaze Rods.

    Here are a bunch of damage causes that are processed code-wise between from Players and not Players:

    ***Any neutral mob taking one of these damage sources will become aggressive to the causing Player, except by dogs/wolves.

    *Melee Weapons

    *Arrows from The Player's Bow

    *TNT Explosion by a Player's Flint and Steel.

    *Splash Potions of Harming/Healing thrown by The Player.

    *Tamed Wolves

    *Fire and Lava



    *Fall Damage


    *Skeletons' Arrows

    *Blazes' and Ghasts' Fireballs

    *Fire Charges

    *Dispensed Arrows/Potions from Dispensers

    *Shulkers' Bullets

    *All of the Ender Dragon's Attacks

    *Withers' Skull Missiles

    *Wild Wolves


    *Magma Blocks (only by top-most surface)

    *Lighting Bolts

    *Falling Anvils
    ShelLuser, 607 and God_Of_Gods like this.
  16. 1.11 The Farmers Dream.
  17. Wow is all I am gonna say
  18. In snapshot-form, this new gamerule is has been officially released. Go ahead and mess around it in snapshot 16w38a, if you like. ;)
    ShelLuser and 607 like this.
  19. I didn't comment so far because I wanted to experience this for myself (can't really seriously comment otherwise in my opinion). So now that I have messed around with it...

    First: the default is 25, not 24.

    I think there should be different settings for different worlds. In town this whole thing should be disabled. Simply because everything else is already pretty much protected and the town world as a whole has little to do with vanilla gameplay. Maybe (no idea if this would actually be possible!) this could be a limit which players can set per-residence. That would be very slick.

    But outside (Frontier / Wilderness) I feel this rule should be enabled. It is the default, it is considered 'Vanilla' and so I think it should apply. With the default value of 25. Especially if this can help EMC to reduce even more lag than they're already doing, that would eventually benefit everyone.

    I can well understand that this can cause issues with player farms, but I also believe these should be able to adapt to the new standards. I have access to a Blaze farm (well, more if you include public stuff) but I don't see how this would severely affect it, because I don't think (not sure from mind!) we get 25 blazes at once in there.

    And since the farm I know of uses player interaction (so you also get extra XP) it would merely be an issue of not letting the amount exceed beyond 25.

    This change can even be a good thing because well... I heard the stories about Pigmentus once lagging out the entire SMP8 server (sorry guys, but I still need to grin when thinking about it) and with that in mind I think it's a good thing that there will be more server options to prevent those things from happening.

    With these discussions I think we should not only focus on what's good for us (= as few limitations as possible) but also try to think about what's best for the server.

    Anyway, just my 2 cents here.
    jkjkjk182, 607 and ForeverMaster0 like this.
  20. I think Jeb should just get rid of it and let people build what they will in this Sand Box game, farms are such a huge part of the game that doing something like this is really stupid... Servers can simply implement an entity counter like we have on EMC, since we can't just grief whoever is causing the lag. (Not suggesting griefing is Ok ever) And on a single player world the lag is generally entirely your fault (unless it's LAN or realms, and even then it is under your complete control if you are the host) so if you have it, downsize the farms.
    ShelLuser likes this.