An uncomfortable conversation

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by JJtheWise, Jun 16, 2016.

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Is this a legitimate Concern?

Yes 13 vote(s) 72.2%
No, you are overreacting 5 vote(s) 27.8%
  1. **I want to preface this by saying that I harbor no resentment towards anyone as a result of this event and I have no intention of offending anyone, but this is an issue that I feel needs to be discussed.

    Today on smp6 there was a political discussion. I know the topic of politics can be distasteful to some however, even on the a minecraft server I would argue that it is healthy for us to have our ideas challenged. When we are not challenged in thought it makes us complacent in our beliefs which is never a good thing in a free society. If you can't defend your opinions it may be a sign that you have the wrong opinions. This is why I was shocked when a staff member told me not to discuss politics in chat.
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    Throughout any controversial discussions I do try to avoid attacking any individual so I blocked out all the names (I left the star so you can see the player is a staff member). However, not attacking an individual does not mean I should resist attacking an idea that I see as absurd. I attack these ideas with the hope that the proponent will defend their view. In this instance I was attacking the idea of Socialism saying, "I hate the word socialist because I know what it means." At this point I was ready for a discussion of socialism and its balance with personal freedoms, but instead I was told, "not sure that you do JJ," followed by, "This is not a place for political talk." Perhaps me being told to enter group chat was not made because I had a different view, but to me it certainly seems that way. Perhaps I'm being a little paranoid, but this staff members decision to tell me, "not sure that you do JJ," came across as a personal attack," the implication being that because I or anyone else dislikes socialism as an ideology, we're either uneducated or unintelligent. Instead of being allowed to explain my statement I was silenced. As I do have a tremendous respect for the moderators of the server I ended the discussion. I am writing about this now because I love this server and its community, and I believe that a key facet of a good community is diversity, and the most important kind of diversity isn't race, or gender, or sexual orientation, the most important kind of diversity is intellectual diversity. Perhaps town chat is an inappropriate place for politics, Perhaps we shouldn't discuss controversial topics in public, or perhaps we should encourage political discussion in town chat, because the only way to develop as a society is for us to exchange ideas. I hope that staff members of this server are encouraged to allow opposing viewpoints, I believe we will foster a better community if we all share ideas instead of blocking them. If you think I'm overreacting please tell me in the poll.
  2. As a Socialist, "I hate the word Socialist" could come across as a personal attack to me and others - it hasn't, at least to myself, because I'm not a knob. I also highly doubt you do know the definition of 'Socialist' since you say it conflicts with personal freedoms. While I don't think the staff member handled this right given the context above, I disagree with what you said and stand by them saying "not sure that you do". I agree with them stopping it in town chat - I think the forums are okay with hosting political debates, since you tend to get older people here who can do that right and aren't like, five years old who could be given a lasting impression of what was said on the topic.
  3. First response that doesnt make a lot of sense
    "Politic ideas=arguments=to some people drama= against rule" that was probably the staff's argument. And also why talk about politics, always someone gets bitten up(verbally) and someone wins, is better to prevent it rivalry between a family friendly(5 year olds) server(you dont want a 5 year old watching adults debating forcefully(aka fighting)... politics is not a debatable topic, it is fightable, but not dabateable

    Edit: there are many reasons to not talk politics inside EMC
    1. World-wide server, yes you may debate but not argue/attack a player for their ideology
    2. This is not a debate politic place, there are places for that! the same reason of why you can't ask players to date you irl through EMC, EMC is NOT a dating website nor debating website. Is a gaming server.
    3. If you can prevent drama, do so(part of rules)
    4. many more
    ^that is my viewpoint, please dont quote me cause i dont want to get alerts from this thread =P
    SSRCMegaMall and iamcavie like this.
  4. I see political chat in town chat of smp7 at least twice a week and I sure hope that it doesn't get quashed by staff because it is definitely conversations that not only need to be had but that almost always (hey lance hasn't been on in a while xD) is done so with lightheartedness and sharing of knowledge and opinions. I learn from these conversations and so do others. As far as socialism, its just as bad as every other ism. -dom's is where its at not -ism's. socialism and every other form of governance that would bestow some form of AUTHORITY (look it up) on a man is completely at odds with nature and God's will(personally I think nature or natural tendencies pretty much explain the latter). Freedom hmmmm, that is something I can stand behind. That whole making laws that ultimately kill people just so we can pretend that we are somehow superior to our fellow man... yeah I can't get behind that one.

    Edit: what does the statement "I am a socialist" mean? Does it just mean that you support the idea of socialism as a governing practice?

    https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/socialist

    ^^This?

    Also want to know what exactly you think socialism is because as a whole it really isn't definable to one person in one specific way so I'm interested in your definition because its really hard to tell someone else they don't know what socialism is when its an esoteric idea that can be taken in so many ways and even by the "father's of socialism" was defined in a very messy and dificult to understand way
    spartan0405 and SSRCMegaMall like this.
  5. Supporter/member of a Socialist party (I don't think that's going to happen in America), supporter of Socialism's ideals and practices, and a desire for them to be part of the governing body.
  6. kinda half of America is socialist/communist... but if you mean the United Utates, then you are right[/quote]
    ESSELEM likes this.
  7. well I know the news pretends that hillary is the popular vote for the democratic party in the US but that isn't true if you actually talk to people. I haven't met more than half a dozen people that like her. Bernie however... he has seen support from dems, pubs and libertarians and claims he is a socialist so I think you might be surprised :p

    In the US, until bernie was ruled out in whatever weird satanic cult thing they do to determine who is the nominee, everyone thought bernie and trump would be the candidates and that trump would lose because he is such a monster lol. hillary is just as much a monster and cruz had little support so until recently I was 99% sure bernie (claims to be a socialist) was actually going to be our next president. I sit over here on the sidelines of the red v. blue thing as an anarchist so I wasn't really pulling for either one of the people that worship monarchy under any name.
    AmusedStew likes this.
  8. Alright, I am the Moderator in question. I did take offence to that you said you hate the word socialist because you know what it stands for, because just like not all conservatives and not all liberals are the same not all socialists are the same. people put different meaning to different words and thats ok. You have different political view then me and i respect that even thou i don't agree them. I asked you and other players to take political chat into group conversation because in the chat rules it clearly states.

    Sure i should have asked in two different lines. Everyone makes mistakes. I have nothing against People talking about politics, but me and many other members do come online to escape the talk of politics and to have fun. Now if you have complaints about me as a moderator please don't hesitate to either pm myself and tell me where you feel you been wronged or contact Krysyy.
  9. I might
  10. Depends on your location, Bernie is starting to seem like a deity in Seattle, but Satan in some other places.
  11. like trump is just a bully and all around terrible human being. One of those people that as soon as you meet them you wish you never had. Hillary doesn't seem like THAT kind of monster but this kind of monster... http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/...ound-dead-bill-hillarys-body-count-increases/

    Something I have been following for about 8 years and it's really really scary for me to think of anyone that thinks of themselves as a friend of the clintons(trump? lol) So maybe we are due another presidential death soon if trump wins? I dunno, just speculation.

    edit: cowland I think bernie skillfully moved in on all of the would be ron paul supporters and even won the hearts of some older supporters. On top of that he doesn't like cops, drug wars or rich people so he got a LOT of people behind him lol. oh yeah, and he scooped up all the people that had their programming changed recently (the teens) from worshipping "catholic capitalism" to worshipping "atheistic socialism" neither of which was explained to them in their programming, just trigger words and both ultimately just oligarchies under false banners.
  12. No where in the rules does it say not to talk politically. The rules says not to cause drama and not to be rude so as long as people are respecting other's opinions, I don't see any rule that would/could be broken. Sounds to me that the moderator was jumping the gun and instead of monitoring the conversation, just shut it down so there wouldn't be anything that would need monitoring. I do think the moderator was wrong but I doubt he barred any malice, likely just trying to keep things calm (right thing but carried out in the wrong way) :p
    JJtheWise likes this.
  13. I don't mean to be rude, but it does(kinda)
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    tuqueque and SoulPunisher like this.
  14. Meh, suggestion, not a rule.
  15. since the whole paragraph keeps getting quoted instead of the bit that pertains to this encounter...

    "be mindful... political views" "best to keep these topics out of chat"
    SoulPunisher likes this.
  16. I was basing this statement on the common American definition of socialism. I'll admit that I haven't looked into the meaning of socialism in other countries. If this miscommunication offended you I'm sorry.

    Like I said I have no ill feelings about you as a moderator, I just think that all staff should make absolutely sure that their request would be that same whether the comments were in support of or against their own opinions.

    As for that rule (which I can't find on the rules page, probably because I'm not looking hard enough) I don't think that a political discussions are inherently dramatic. And I don't see why argument has to be a bad thing as long as it doesn't result in personal attacks. I've been told by moderators before that political and religious discussion is fine as long as it is productive and doesn't lead to attacks on character. I see a conflict in these two accounts that should probably be resolved.

    Still my main concern would be this community, If we are not mature enough as a community to not let these topics interfere with our friendships and good faith towards each other then I suppose it would be best to stop. However I would hope that we are mature enough, as remaining friends despite our differences would be better than being friends because we do not know each other enough to develop animosity.
    SoulPunisher and ChickenDice like this.
  17. I'm getting mixed messages from the passage... The first sentence of the last paragraph makes it sound as if talking about any of those is against the rules but then in the next sentence it says "it is best" making it sound as if it is a suggestion not an order. I always interpreted that part of the rules to say you can talk about politics, religious stuff, etc. but to treat it like a red wire when defusing the bomb: very subtle and careful ;)
  18. Don't worry JJ I don't harbour any bad feelings towards you :). Reason for why I suggested to take the debate/discussion to to group chat was because we have such a diverse range of people playing on the server that political and religious matters can get heated very quickly. It's like playing with matches on a powder keg. Sooner than later it's going to blow up. By taking it to group where every participant was their by his own will rather than having it in town chat where it could upset unwilling participants in the conversation. And ofc this won't effect our friendship :)
  19. Like Wallstreet?

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    But yeah, the last bullet point is most definitely a guideline.
    FoxyRavenger and Gawadrolt like this.
  20. ^^ what he said, please don't keep on it and have them reword it to something that isn't vague but rather just straight intrusive :D kthnxbai